Solar Panel

[Chili Pepper]

2017 R29CB-- Have a 140 watt Kyocera solar panel and a Morningstar SSD25RM controller. Getting the E-06 overcorrect fault from the controller. If you disconnect the panel from the controller the fault goes away. According to the Kyocera specs. it has a short circuit current of 8.8 amps. And, according to the specs the SSD25 has a maximum current of 25 amps. This should not be happening. Have talked with Morningstar tech. He thinks the SSD25 is OK and that I have a short somewhere in the boat's system. Anyone had this experience or have ideas for me to try?

 

[knotflying]

Have not had that problem, but did you try resetting the controller? Remover fuses between controller and batteries, disconnect negative wire from solar panel to controller. Wait one minute. Install fuses to batteries and then negative wire from solar panel to controller.

 

[Chili Pepper]

Have not had that problem, but did you try resetting the controller? Remover fuses between controller and batteries, disconnect negative wire from solar panel to controller. Wait one minute. Install fuses to batteries and then negative wire from solar panel to controller.

Thanks. Will try.

 

[Chili Pepper]

Installed new (rebuilt) Morningstar controller in solar charging system. System seems to be working fine now.
Morningstar Tech. thought that I had a short somewhere in my electrical system that was causing the problem. I could not find one. Hired an marine electrician/electronic technician to look at my system. He could not find anything wrong either. My tech said that if there was a short there would be "battery drainage" and/or melted wire insulation which I have neither. This is the third Morningstar controller in this 2017 29CB Tug. I find this excessive. Was wondering if anyone has had a similar problem.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Perhaps there is a voltage or current spike when the acr’s are closing?

I ditched the sun saver and went to a victron mppt. So much more controllable.

 

[Gin]

Gavin, your solution has intrigued me. Am I correct to assume that you didn’t mind giving up the “duo” aspect of the original controller (which split the charge between house and engine batts) because the ACRs serve more or less the same function? And may I also assume you’ve been happy with the Victron? Did you go for the MTTP 100|30 model?

Gini

 

[vertigo]

Perhaps there is a voltage or current spike when the acr’s are closing?

I ditched the sun saver and went to a victron mppt. So much more controllable.

Same experience here, though I also ditched to small solar panel for a 320 watt unit. The bluetooth output and historical reporting to my iphone is a welcome addition.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

There is no point of the dual feature of the sunsaver. the ACR's just combine the batteries when voltage is high enough anyway. It offers no value.

I upgraded my panel to a 340W splitcell panel https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...PEAK-DUO-BLK-G6-340/product.aspx?zpid=1458239 (so shadows are less impactful)

The 100/30 MPPT victron (with Bluetooth)
https://www.amazon.com/SmartSolar-MPPT-100-Charge-Controller/dp/B073ZJ3L13/

and a Bluetooth battery sense on the house batteries.
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Smart-Battery-Sense-Range/dp/B07RTYGMBD/

you join the battery sense to the MPPT as a network in the app and now the solar charger knows the volts and temp AT the battery and therefore removes any issues with voltage drop down the cables. - a large issue actually charging batteries to their full capacity.

This has changed my anchoring experience as power just isnt an issue any more. I have power to spare and can charge devices all afternoon for free.

I already have a Balmar Smartguage on the house batteries which gives me a view on State of charge. Im typically around 82-85% SOC by the morning (fridge (major draw) and LED anchor light (minor)) before the solar starts pouring power back into the batteries.

The item that still doesn't work well is that the engine battery which is a universal 110Ah when its cold and 3 years old cannot start the engine from overnight at anchor. the CCA specs of the battery just isnt up to the task. once the air temp is warmer or combined with house its no problem. Im not worried about combining as much now with the solar setup as i know within a few hours of sunrise I will have lots of power in the house batteries.

There are really two solutions
1. upgrade the AGM's to Northstars that have better CCA (expensive for they same AGM tech though)
2. rewire the boat to have lithium house and a lead acid engine start battery. lots of work and $ for the rewire. (Needs alternator upgrade, sterling battery disconnect, Wakespeed Alternator controller, DC-DC chargers and a rewire plus id probably pull out the inverter and shore power charger and install the victron combined unit)

If I went to lithium I should see 22amps continuously flowing into the lithiums from the panel. Alas with AGM's they just cannot handle that power that quickly. so charge times are slower. but I can pull power direct from the 12v circuit into other devices.

 

[Gin]

Good info, Gavin. Thanks.

Gini

 

[Wee Venture]

Gavin, I really appreciate all your info on solar here. It is really helpful to me in my lithium upgrade project. I see you are here where I am in the Pacific Northwest and I had wondered how practical it would be to invest further in solar in this area. Apparently very worthwhile. I got the same solar controller that you did, by the way.

Regarding your engine battery, I think you would find there would be a great improvement in installing a dedicated cranking battery like the yellow top Optima. It is not as expensive as the Northstar (but the Northstar would certainly be a top-level choice) and it has made all the difference for us. The Universals are just not good for starting. Like you, after being at an anchorage for a day or two, I regularly had to flip the Combine switch to “on” just to get started. After replacing it with the Optima, there has never been the slightest hesitation when pushing the button.

John

 

[Jfrano]

Yeah, I had the same problem, same error. Problem was, when they replaced my batteries they swapped the wires going into the solar controller, such that the solar wires were in bank 1 and visa versus . Even when I swapped the wires back was still getting error. Morningstar sent new controller and with wires correctly connected, all has been fine since!

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Gavin, I really appreciate all your info on solar here. It is really helpful to me in my lithium upgrade project. I see you are here where I am in the Pacific Northwest and I had wondered how practical it would be to invest further in solar in this area. Apparently very worthwhile. I got the same solar controller that you did, by the way.

Regarding your engine battery, I think you would find there would be a great improvement in installing a dedicated cranking battery like the yellow top Optima. It is not as expensive as the Northstar (but the Northstar would certainly be a top-level choice) and it has made all the difference for us. The Universals are just not good for starting. Like you, after being at an anchorage for a day or two, I regularly had to flip the Combine switch to “on” just to get started. After replacing it with the Optima, there has never been the slightest hesitation when pushing the button.

John

From a PNW point of view on solar: i do most of my boating in the summer months so sunshine is pretty good and makes solar worthwhile. If I boated more at anchor in winter up here with grey days the story would be different. and I would have to run the engine more. The good news is we generally like boating when its sunny 😀
whats interesting about solar usage at anchor and how we use the boat during the day is I tend to draw most power in the afternoon just as the solar output is dropping. what is also amazing is if I sit on the sunny side of the boat and the boat lists slightly towards the sun the output is dramatically higher in that final hour before sunset. It really shows that a mechanism to angle the panel to the sun would have a huge effect in the late afternoons. - the challenge is to stop swinging at anchor to make this worthwhile!

im interested in switching out the engine start battery - good to hear you guys are having success here as I dont like the price of the Northstars.

Is the optima charge profile close enough to the universals? I have a feeling with my MPPT / shore power settings i would kill the optima pretty quickly.
- I have my MPPT solar profile set to put out pretty high volts in the bulk phase - as despite the universals poor documentation they like volts higher than most AGM types.
if i'm remembering correctly pretty sure I have my MPPT set to profile 3 - which outputs 14.7 volts and matches the universal's required range of 14.6 -14.8v

(page 7 here: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...100-30---100-50-Rev-10-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE-.pdf)

interesting... just looking at the Optima manual: looks like I can push up to 15v (not ideal to be at the top of the range) but looks like I can keep the settings.
https://buy.optimabatteries.com/6316/0129/3472/battery_user_guide.pdf

im curious why you went Yellow top and not Red top for the engine battery? - because of the parasitic draw of the propane solenoid in our boats on the engine battery?

 

[Wee Venture]

im interested in switching out the engine start battery - good to hear you guys are having success here as I dont like the price of the Northstars.

Is the optima charge profile close enough to the universals? I have a feeling with my MPPT / shore power settings i would kill the optima pretty quickly.
- I have my MPPT solar profile set to put out pretty high volts in the bulk phase - as despite the universals poor documentation they like volts higher than most AGM types.
if i'm remembering correctly pretty sure I have my MPPT set to profile 3 - which outputs 14.7 volts and matches the universal's required range of 14.6 -14.8v

(page 7 here: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...100-30---100-50-Rev-10-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE-.pdf)

interesting... just looking at the Optima manual: looks like I can push up to 15v (not ideal to be at the top of the range) but looks like I can keep the settings.
https://buy.optimabatteries.com/6316/0129/3472/battery_user_guide.pdf

im curious why you went Yellow top and not Red top for the engine battery? - because of the parasitic draw of the propane solenoid in our boats on the engine battery?

14.7 volts does seem pretty high but you are right, it is within the posted range. The posted material also specifies the importance of using a charger’s AGM setting. I have been using our shore power charger AGM setting which outputs 14.3V in bulk and absorption and 13.4 in float. So a big difference.

Regarding the yellow top vs red top, the yellow top is what the factory supplied me when my original equipment engine battery was was not doing the job. They call the yellow top a dual purpose, but it has higher cold cranking amps than any of the red tops (or blue top “marine” batteries for that matter) I could find. And the reserve capacity is nice to have too.

I did switch the propane solenoid over to the house bank some time ago.

John

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Thanks John. I was surprised at the specs of the universals but am following the numerical guidance. Companies like victron have multiple agm settings all with different voltage levels on their controllers. I’ve been running for a year at the new voltages and no issues so far.

I’m going to switch to a yellow top for the engine battery.

 

[Wee Venture]

Regarding the yellow top vs red top, the yellow top is what the factory supplied me when my original equipment engine battery was was not doing the job. They call the yellow top a dual purpose, but it has higher cold cranking amps than any of the red tops (or blue top “marine” batteries for that matter) I could find. And the reserve capacity is nice to have too.

John

I’m going to switch to a yellow top for the engine battery.

Oops. Apparently I missed a “blue top” option. Sorry Brian! I stand corrected. This quote is actually from a parallel thread, “Battery problem":

I actually spoke to optima today and they recommended the blue top d31m. Is got the same 900 CA and 1125 CCA but you gain the extra battery connections. Otherwise it’s the same as the yellow top 31t.

Stuart

So if you want the dual connections, the blue top is an option to consider.

John

 

[Chili Pepper]

I boat in the Gulf of Mexico. My Tug is kept in a dimly lit boat barn when not in use. When out of the barn the engine and/or the generator are running or am commented to shore power at a marina. Thus I have little use for a solar charging system. Consulting with Morningstar, I disabled the solar charging system by first removing the fuse from the SSD25 controller to the solar panel then removed the fuses from the SSD25 to the batteries. This disconnection order MUST be followed in order to prevent possible damage to the SSD25. To re-activate the solar charging system FIRST install the fuses from the batteries to the SSD25 THEN install the fuse from the solar panel to the SSD25. Again, this fuse installation order must be followed.

Thought this might be useful to other boaters, like myself, that really do not need a solar charging system.

P.S.
I had to install the extra fuse holder from the SSD25 to the solar panel. Positive (Red) wire only.