Speed Habits - Poll

SLyle:

Yep, that math and set of tradeoffs are perfect logic on the speedboat hull of a new RT27

The logic I am weighing personally is to go where you have gone, or go more trawler hull. An RT31 for example would make that 54 miles at 6 knots burning in the vicinity of 7 gallons. That changes things. So for you it might be 24 gallons either way, but factor in boat decision and it becomes 7 vs. 24.

That RT 31 COULD do it at 16 knots or a little more, but burn 36. So its either way better fuel economy or way worse depending on your speed habits.

Hence the choice that needs to be made, and lived with.
 
I am a speeder, normally cruising at 70% throttle and doing 14Kts
 
SLyle01,
In your example, what is the destination? A marina or an anchorage?
The differences between the inboard and O/B models is much, much more than the power plants. In my opinion the O/B designs were optimized for day trips, fishing and marina-to-marina cruising. More of the O/B feature set is 120 volt dependent and relies on shore power or running a generator. The older inboard designs (with dinghy on swim platforms) were optimized for being at anchor but they do well in marinas too.
Define the mission first then get the model that best fits!
PS: If the factory offered us a straight trade of a brand new R25 O/B for our R25 Classic with the only condition being we had to use if for 5 years, I would not do It. The new R25 O/B is a nice boat for sure but it definitely does not fit our mission.
 
SLyle01,

Great post... puts time and expense into perspective... and look at the economy of hours you just saved your motor!

Al,

I'm trying to understand your rationale of how a trawler is better suited for anchorages. I suspect our battery banks are similar with a similar solar panel... while cruising we both arrive at our destinations with our batteries topped up through our alternators... at this point we both have battery management practices in play to preserve our DC power.

Here in the PNW speed / power can help in arriving at turbulent passages (Deception Pass, Dodd Narrows, Yuculta Rapids, etc.) at slack, and in some cases extending that timeframe (power) to safely navigate that passage.

Whether slowboat or fast boat, journey vs destination, we all enjoy the revitalizing nature of water and the peaceful serenity of the areas it allows us visit.

Now, let's get a safe, effective vaccine and get rid of that damn virus!

Bob
The Doghouse 2
 
Bob,
Here’s what I see as differences:
1. I can have my dinghy deployed and ready to go to shore in well under 5 minutes
2. I have hot water at anchorage for up to two full days because of engine heat plus free cabin heat while underway
3. I can cook on the Magma grill without electricity and no propane locker on the swim step
4. The cabin area is bigger on the R25 classic than the newer 25’ models making it more livable for extended cruising
5. Option to have a fully enclosed cockpit and larger standard Bimini shade top than the O/B models
6. Black water holding tank more than double the size of new R25 O/B
7. No need for generator system and the associated maintenance - heck we haven’t ever used the inverter in 5 seasons of cruising!
8. Compared to the R25 O/B which had an electric/alcohol stove (hated that in my prior I/O boats galley) we have a kerosene dual cooktop that doubles as a cabin heater which we really love!
Not huge differences separately but in total enough to influence our decision of what to buy
 
Bob is onto something that is an element I'm getting a personal grip on. Its not just speed and fuel.

I am (or will be at retirement) on the Chesapeake. From where home port will be, a run to Norfolk is 150 miles. Now one can do that in a fast 1 day, or take three at trawler speed.

(South of there, its the ICW where many days are at slow speeds no matter what boat you are driving)

At trawler speed the fuel cost is only an estimated $55 for the 3 day trip. If my math is right, that's about $170 for Bob.

So far so good, but how do you spend the two nights en route? If you pull into a marina for 2 nights that adds about $150. Except, when that nice marina has a great tiki bar with cold drinks and a steak or burger just steps away ya gotta know you are headed there. How this balances out depends on how hungry and thirsty you are. 🙂

Anchor out and cook, and its a much cheaper trip. Hit the marinas en route and you just spent the savings.

Maybe you want to. Part of the fun doing that instead of the fun of going fast. Maybe the fun is in the quiet cove. No one right answer, but answering that does have an impact on the speed vs fuel question when it comes to total cost.
 
I enjoy the speed of our 27OB and the ability to easily tow it where we want to go. It was nice last year being able to out run a storm that came out of nowhere. We did a day trip exploring a bit, we were having so much fun we lost all track of time... then had to use all of the speed of the 27OB to get back on schedule. I also like to be able to putt along at 5 kts enjoying the scenery and just relaxing. I guess my attitude is you can slow down a fast boat but you can't make a slow boat go fast. Having said that, when we retire to our home on the water, a RT-29CB is in the plans as we want a more stable solid boat with a little more elbow room for our final boat. Until then, lots more lakes in New England to explore. 🙂
 
I've said it before, but I'll say it again... I love Tugnuts... and I love you guys too!

Al, I understand where you're coming from even though I don't necessarily agree with all your points.

Having a standard dinghy, once in the water, is a great advantage over my inflatable kayak. However, having your six sight-blocked is not. At 5-10 knots it's probably not much of a wind resistance.

Underway I utilize my inverter to heat my 5.5 gallon Isotherm HWT. My 9.9 Suzuki kicker motor is directly connected to my house bank for quiet recharging without adding hours to my main.

I have both a Magma rodholder-mounted propane grill or we can use the propane cooktop/oven if we need to heat the cabin. At marinas on shorepower with nice weather, that Kenyon electric grill in the transom is really nice!

We clearly both have RT's that work for us... and Fluid Motion needs to get some cred here!

FWTMD/Jim,

With less hours of travel time required, the fuel efficiency of an inboard diesel has less impact. There is no argument to having 1.5 feet of added beam width plus either 2 or 4 feet of added length (over the R27) give the R29/R31 an unsurpassed advantage in the pocket cruiser world... more room, more displacement... and they're still trailerable!

Now, when the R29-OB comes out, our decision is made!

Bob
The Doghouse 2
 
Bob:

There is no wrong way to enjoy boating. At least that's what I am trying to say. Badly, probably. It's just pick your poison.

This guy will spend less than one third on fuel on a given trip than you. At 6-9 knots.

https://www.helmsmantrawlers.com/helmsm ... ilothouse/

I know you like speed, but ya gotta admit my friend that this ain't a bad way to go!
 
For those who are wannabe tug owners, clearly you are already a “nut”, tug nut that is, which design makes you the happiest when just looking at it? For us it was the redesigned 29S and we have the 2015. Love just looking at it. The outboard design for us is a non-starter. Credits and debits on performance etc is a wash in my book. What makes you happiest?
 
Well, I am an openly-admitted wannabe, so maybe that question was lobbed my way?

For quite a while the 29S has been my strong lean. It is "the first against which others shall be measured." If my eye turns to something else, the metric is "better or worse basket of tradeoffs vs the 29S".

I've worn my heart on my sleeve in this thread about circling back to get clear on with myself on my needs. Like many I started with "I just like that boat". I put some carts before horses.

My wife's opinions enter in, and getting those firmed up is like nailing jello to the wall. Not much clarity. But she has now stated with some firmness she wants a command bridge. My eyebrows raise. OK dear, we'll start to factor that into tradeoffs, which now includes better and worse command bridges.

Ask her if she wants to go fast, and the answer is yes but nothing radical. I ask her that if we tool over to a specific destination, her favorite waterfront restaurant, and say we can do that in 2 hours and spend about $8 in fuel, or we can do it in 50 min and spend $35 in fuel, and she says absolutely let's take our time, no need to rush. We are framing lots of questions for ourselves and developing the answers. Its a process. These things cost as much as a house, so get it right.
 
FWTMD,

I've always liked the Camano (now Helmsman) trawlers. A couple things would have me turn toward the RT 29 or 31... they're trailerable! And consequently, I can keep them out of the water!

I envy friends that keep their boats moored at marinas... they're able to be spontaneous and probably use their boats more often as a result.

Having said that, their trips always start at the same place... they won't be making spontaneous trips to inland lakes or far off destinations. Have I done this... no... but I could!

I can say my hull below the waterline is as pristine now as the day I bought it... I know I need to get over this "marine growth" thing... boat still works, it's just a cosmetic thing!

Good luck in your quest to find "your" perfect boat!

Bob
The Doghouse 2
 
Has the admiral yet been aboard a 29S and a 29CB?
 
I’ve been holding off responding to this poll because I couldn’t decide how to respond. Our trips vary significantly and the speed we go is dependent on many factors. Much of which is determined by the boat we currently own. The most recent posts have been gravitating towards what is the right boat for a given person, usage, location, or the Admiral! The bottom line is that there is no such thing as the “right” boat. It is only the right boat “at the moment”. If you have the right boat “at the moment” then you can smile and be glad you have it, but the next moment it will not be “right” because the situation has changed and you may be SUFFERING “at the moment”. It is ALWAYS a compromise.

Our boat (R27 Classic) lives on the trailer in the garage behind the house 6 months of the year (in the PNW). Average speed (at the moment, in winter): 0 knots. Works for me, because we choose to not boat in the winter. Yes, it’s a compromise, no boating in winter. I get lots done on the boat though. 🙂

During the summer we keep the boat at the Oak Harbor Marina In Washington State to make quick day trips with friends easier. Quick is a bit of a misnomer because even short trips are an all day thing. It is a very long day to go to the San Juans and back. Locally there are only a few lunch stops and even then it is most of a day. For these trips it is 80% throttle (3400rpm) all the way. Can’t do it any other way. For these trips an R27 OB would be ideal!

For longer trips, up to several weeks, we like to throttle back (6 to 7.5 knots) whenever possible. It all depends on the need to adjust our arrival time for tides, currents, and expected marina, dock, ball, or anchorage availability. We like to anchor out a lot and like the instant availability of our solar panels, dinghy, kayak, hot water, propane range, magma grill, etc. Also, the particular crossing may have an influence on what would be the “right speed” or “right boat” for “at the moment”. The R27 Classic USUALLY works well for us in these moments.

Last season we ran for 3 months all the way up the inside passage to Glacier Bay and back mostly at 7.5 knots. “At the moment” we were usually concerned about range with our small fuel tank and matching our partner boat speed (and thus 7.5 knots). Then again, at times, “at the moment” meant “getting the hell out of dodge as fast a possible or wishing we had a bigger boat!”. If I were to pick a boat for that trip it might have been the Helmsman 38E noted above! That would be a different compromise, of course, with our other “at the moment” uses noted above.

My point is: it will always be a compromise. There is no perfect boat for you except “at the moment”. Pick a boat that is a reasonable compromise for the moments that you can predict for the near future and go with it! I think John and Laurie Grey are expressing this well. One boat for for the NW and and another for the great loop, and maybe another for a future trip.

Just look at your plans “at the moment” and pick the boat that is the best compromise “at the moment”. You can always make a different compromise later. 😉

Good luck to all in making the best compromise for your needs “At the Moment”!

Curt
 
I typically cruise a bit under hull speed, about 7 or 8 mph (on a river, so we don't use knots) for economy.
Having said that, when I head up river I get up on plane to beat the current.
Current is normally about 4 mph, so upstream at 1200 rpm I make 3 - 4 mph over ground. Bleah!
Downstream is about 10 - 11 mph with the current boost.

I love speed, so occasionally I'll go WOT for 40 mph to scratch that itch.

Jeff Radwill
R27
 
Bob:

Yeah, the Helmsman boats are pretty well-appointed boats. A 38 is a lot more boat than I have any business trying to bite off, but it makes for nice boat-porn dreaming. 🙂 The 31 is a nice boat too, but like all boats is imperfect too. While it gets up on a sort-of plane like the RT's, it develops some instability above 15, so be happy giving up the RT29's fast cruise speeds above 20. Its deeper, which might not matter in the PNW but might matter in some Chesapeake and south waters.

Two things I know I won't be doing is trailering and fishing. So the RT's benefits of trailer and big cockpit are lost to me there, except for the cockpit use as an outdoor space generally. Space lost in the cockpit is gained in the cabin and bridge, so its which might you prefer? Nice bridge but in retirement how long will you want to make the climb? Small side decks on both, which creates questions for both at the deep into retirement issue, but that adds cabin space.

There are some other big name brand choices out there too. I won't get into bad-mouthing them here, but I wouldn't touch them no matter what.

Nope. None are perfect. Choices that take time to sort out, and thankfully I'm starting the selection journey early enough to settle some things.

In closing, cast your eyes beyond RT/C's and a few things become clear. Fluid is filling a void as there are not that many alternative lines of small cruising boats to choose from. Second, each performs well even with different sets of strengths to choose among. Third, pretty well built and well appointed.
 
Ethan:

Nope. Covid lockdowns. We had a boat show locked in on our calendars but it was canceled. Covid has prevented me from doing more than a one hour sprint through a few cabins on a dealer lot. Circumstances have driven this exercise to PC screens. I can't wait until we can cure that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

  • Tugnuts.com is the community hub for Ranger Tug, Cutwater, and Solara owners. Since its inception in 2008, the Tugnuts forum has grown into an active and thriving community of more than 9,000 members. It serves as both a meeting place for the best boating community online, and an invaluable archive of information.

  • User menu
Back
Top