Steering “bleed-off”

[Thorolson]

Having just returned from a trip doing part of the Great Loop river system I’ve notice my steering on my R29 Classic seems to bleed off. Meaning: I have to slightly continue turning to starboard to maintain a straight course. Only noticeable when cruising at 8-9+ mph. My guess is possible air in line or low steering/ hydraulic fluid. If air, not sure how to bleed...
If low, I’m not sure where to check/ add. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Connerkip]

You may have a defective Garmin auto drive pump. Search the threads for more info. The description you provide sounds just like it.

To check if the pump is defective, close the three screws on the pump to isolate it out of the steering loop. If problem is gone with the autopilot out of the loop, likely you have a problem with the pump.

 

[ixlr8]

Another issue is the autopilot is controlling the boat even though it is in standby mode. This has happened to me and a few others, rumor has it Garmin has updated the software this year to prevent this from happening. I have not had it happen since I updated all the Garmin software in my boat in August. If this happens again, try turning off the auto pilot. Not just disengaging the autopilot, but turn the controller off. Unfortunately there has been too many cases of not very old pumps going bad causing this symptom.

The hydraulic fluid reservoir for the steering system is in the helm pump. If you look at top of where the wheel is mounted you should see a small plug. That is the port to fill the steering system with fluid. If you are just adding fluid, it is easy if you have the adapter that screws into that port, otherwise it can be a bit messy. If you need to purge the system of air, the best way to do it is have a dealer with the right equipment do it. It will take the dealer 15-20 minutes with the purging equipment, it will take 60-90 minutes without that equipment and it might not be done correctly.
Good luck.

 

[BB marine]

I don't completely understand your issue. If you have a "spongy jerky wheel" or if you turn the wheel all the way starboard and it doesn't lock and it feels "spongy" and then all the way to port reacts the same way. I would suspect air in the system. It should lock when turned full starboard and full port. If you are cruising at 8kt or better and you continually have to make slight starboard adjustments this is normal. The boat is running a right hand rotation prop. In forward the prop will want to walk the stern to the starboard and the bow to the port. So while cruising a slight starboard correction may be needed.

 

[Scotty Mac]

Had the same issue as to no lock to lock, constantly correcting to starboard. I isolated the autopilot pump and problem went away. Replaced the pump and now problems is fixed. It is a known problem with the older pumps, mine was a 2014 R31cb.

 

[Thorolson]

Scotty,

Thanks for responding. Is the pump replacement a DIY project?

 

[chronicity]

I had a similar issue--closed the screws on the pump and that problem mostly went away. The auto-pilot pump was replaced under warranty. However, a similar issue is still present. Before, I had to continually turn the wheel to the left, pretty aggressively (a full turn every 30-60 seconds). Now, the wheel drifts much more slowly, and only when you are actively making course corrections. Shutting off the auto-pilot pump doesn't change this.

By steering wheel drift, what I mean is that (1) if you keep the wheel in one position, the boat starts turning to the right; (2) to keep going straight, you have to continually rotate the wheel left--all day long.

 

[Medic741]

Exactly what was happening with my 2014 31cb. The pump was warrantied as it was a known fault. Problem gone.
It had to be installed by a shop to honor the warranty, but would be relatively simple diy.

 

[Scotty Mac]

Thorolsan,
Yes it’s a DYi but not as Garmin has you install. Ranger Tug when they installed used a 5 line setup. Two lines in the face of the pump, 3 lines in the side of the pump. When Garmin sends the new pump they only include connectors for the three lines. You will need to purchase from a hydrolic hos supplier the other two connectors as the originals are not the same thread pattern as the new pump units. I had a post about this a few months back. Garmin was no help on getting the correct fittings and it is not something Ranger parts will supply. It was not a big deal to find once I got to a hydrolic hose shop, hooked me up for about $ 10.
You will need to bleed the system after you install, this for me was going to the bridge (31CB) removing the oil fill cap, attaching the fill fitting, connect hose to the oil bottle and the fill fitting. Then grab a beer, put on some music and turn the wheel port to starboard slowly for the next half and hour or so until you see no more air bubbles come up through the tube into the bottle. I bought my fluid at West marine and they had some great info on this fill and bleed proceedure. You should have got the fill fitting with your boat.
Your pump is most likely out of warranty but Garmin will cut you some slack on the replacement, $ 800.00 to buy but they will refund 400 if you send old unit back.
There was someone selling one on here awhile back for a good price, do a search and should come up.

Good luck to you

ScottyMac

 

[asm777]

I don't completely understand your issue. If you have a "spongy jerky wheel" or if you turn the wheel all the way starboard and it doesn't lock and it feels "spongy" and then all the way to port reacts the same way. I would suspect air in the system. It should lock when turned full starboard and full port. If you are cruising at 8kt or better and you continually have to make slight starboard adjustments this is normal. The boat is running a right hand rotation prop. In forward the prop will want to walk the stern to the starboard and the bow to the port. So while cruising a slight starboard correction may be needed.

I've heard this repeated many times but it's not true. When everything is working correctly, the boat should steer STRAIGHT with no steering inputs necessary to maintain course. Sure, maybe if rudder is pointed straight, the boat will want to turn to port. However, that just means that the rudder needs to be adjusted slightly to starboard turn to compensate for the prop. The key is that the rudder has to STAY in the correct position to exactly offset the prop. My understanding is that air in the hydraulic steering or some component failure is what causes the steering to not maintain rudder position thereby resulting in the boat drifting to port (rudder slippage).

I had a similar issue--closed the screws on the pump and that problem mostly went away. The auto-pilot pump was replaced under warranty. However, a similar issue is still present. Before, I had to continually turn the wheel to the left, pretty aggressively (a full turn every 30-60 seconds). Now, the wheel drifts much more slowly, and only when you are actively making course corrections. Shutting off the auto-pilot pump doesn't change this.

By steering wheel drift, what I mean is that (1) if you keep the wheel in one position, the boat starts turning to the right; (2) to keep going straight, you have to continually rotate the wheel left--all day long.

Steering wheel drift (what I call rudder slippage)... is NOT normal behavior.

Been meaning to update on our steering issues (I've posted in other threads in the past) as Garmin/Cutwater have recently managed to solve our boat's ongoing steering issues (keeping fingers crossed that it's finally fixed once and for all).

Over the past 3 years, we've also experienced what we've been assuming is autopilot pump issues with the steering allowing rudder slippage and requiring constant starboard turns of the wheel to maintain course.

After the issues resurfaced with our 4th pump earlier this year (still not clear if it was a pump issue or something else), Garmin/Cutwater/Uflex replaced quite a number of parts on our boat to try to figure out what has been causing the autopilot pump / steering issues on our boat. I'm not entirely sure if they've come to a final verdict on the root cause but I'm sure they must be trying to get this solved as it's not cheap to keep replacing pumps (if that's really what's been happening).

To repeat, when everything in the steering system (helms, autopilot pump, steering arm, etc.) is installed and functioning properly, the boat will go STRAIGHT and you should NOT have to turn the wheel at all to maintain course.

 

[Red Raven]

I agree with asm777. Once on a set course our boat runs perfectly straight without touching the wheel.

 

[markweiss]

Same issue on my 2015 Cutwater 30CB. I learned my hydraulic hoses were not connected at the factory per the Garmin and Uflex specs. The compression (return) lines are supposed to be connected to the in and out ports in the aft and salon helms. The bridge compression lines should be connected to the lower port. My compression lines were "T" connected with only one connection to the two lower helms.
The upper helm should have a vented plug and the lower helm plugs should be non-vented. My aft helm had a vented plug. Also, I've replaced the autopilot pump twice. Garmin has not charged me even though out of warranty.
My boat is being connected as I write this email. I hope this fixes the problem once and for all.
My symptoms-
About 9 months ago, helm wheels would not lock, clockwise or counterclockwise. Boat drifted to Port. Replaced autopilot pump and purged and refilled hydraulic fluid and it worked for 6 months.
This time the hose configuration was identified as not being correct. Pump and hosing being fixed. I've got my fingers crossed that it will solve the problem and it won't reoccur.
Cutwater sent me the schemmatic for the correct hose connections and said that is the way they are built - mine wasn't.
I wish I understood the root cause for the problem!!

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