Steering question

S

Steeldieman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
102
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
Non-Fluid Motion Model
Cutwater 28
Vessel Name
Katy A
So I have the constant correction to starboard steering issues. The steering is also very notchy. I’m able to run the auto pilot seemingly without issue. Do I have an air in the line problem or do I need a rebuilt pump?
 
Steeldieman":b5xrl3kf said:
So I have the constant correction to starboard steering issues. The steering is also very notchy. I’m able to run the auto pilot seemingly without issue. Do I have an air in the line problem or do I need a rebuilt pump?
Click to expand...

Hello,

Sounds like you could have two issues:

1. With the steering being notchy, that is a indication of air in the system. Is the steering soft lock to lock? Can you continue to spin the steering wheel when at full lock?

2. There have been some issues with the auto pilot pump causing the boat to pull to one side, there is a test that your mechanic can do to see if the pump is bad.

I would make sure you have NO air in the system before you test the pump as having the system bled is cheaper then replacing a pump that may or may not be bad. If you want to email me I can send you the test for the auto pilot pump, me email is below. Also it is very important to find someone who can bleed the system correctly as you not only bleed the steering system but also bleed the auto pilot pump.

Thank you,
Kevin Lamont
 
It’s soft lock to lock and yes I can continue to turn the wheel. What does that tell you?
 
That definitely sounds like the typical Garmin auto pilot pump issue. I had same problem and once I isolated the pump the problem went away. That is the true test. Search this topic and you’ll see many others with same issue.
 
I've been experiencing the same "pull to port" steering for about a year. I was convinced that I had succumbed to the dreaded Garmin pump failure.

Then something dawned on the me. The problem seems to only occur at speed. That made me think it may be a drag issue. My C28 always had a significant port-side list. Then added a dinghy and other stuff that contributed to the list. This required an almost full deflection of the port-side trim tab to level the boat. With some starboard trim to help bring the bow down.

So, I retracted the port trim tab completely. Also the starboard trim tab. Then retrimmed the boat to level with the bow riding higher. Eureka the "pull-to-port" issue went away. Seems with the dinghy, outboard, and "stuff" loaded in the stern and swim step, it caused the port trim tab to take an even bigger bite in the water causing the boat to pull to port.
 
I’m almost handy and I’ve got a kid who works for me who is a trained mechanic. I’m going to sort out the trim tab and bleed the steering. Any tips pictures or video of bleeding the system will be appreciated
 
Steeldieman":34onhyep said:
I’m almost handy and I’ve got a kid who works for me who is a trained mechanic. I’m going to sort out the trim tab and bleed the steering. Any tips pictures or video of bleeding the system will be appreciated
Click to expand...
Uflex and SeaStarSolutions both have procedures on their web sites on how to bleed the steering. Most dealers will have a power bleeder and with it, it will take about 20 minutes to bleed the lines. I have read reports that doing it manually can take 3-5 hrs, and several attempts, to get it right.
 
I assume you have the Garmin 1.2L autopilot pump on your Cutwater. If so, there are 3 screws (look like big, brass, slotted head set screws) on the front of the valve block mounted on the pump. A quick way to isolate the problem is to tighten all 3 of those screws, then try the manual steering. If the steering now has hard stops at both ends of travel, then you know the pump is bad. If the ends of travel are still squishy, then you know it's another problem, likely air in the ram.
 
Don't waste your time. It is the steering pump. Took three pumps to fix in our case. I believe Garmin has a fix at this point. We have cruised 133 hours following last fix without a problem.
 
Steeldieman":jj9ig8hk said:
I’m almost handy and I’ve got a kid who works for me who is a trained mechanic. I’m going to sort out the trim tab and bleed the steering. Any tips pictures or video of bleeding the system will be appreciated
Click to expand...

I had Garmin bleed the air from my auto pilot's lines. This was back in 2010 for my R25 Classic. The equipment for purging the air is pretty darn fancy.

Photos here -> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B1A5VtHQfyBTk7

Good luck. 🙂
 
I have to ask the question. When did you notice this issue? I know you bought your boat the same time I bought mine so you have been cruising presently 3.5 seasons. If you haven't had the issue the complete time and you are just noticing the issue what changed? Have you had to add fluid to the helm? If so can you see a leak anywhere in the system? Air doesn't just leak into the system. If you had good steering and it started to malfunction or change noticeably you have a leak and the level dropped and air was introduced or you have a malfunctioning check valve in the pump. I have to agree with others use the isolation block valves to isolate the pump from the hydraulic steering system. Keep your auto pilot off. Take the boat out and test run. If you feel a solid lock to lock at the helm. Call Garmin and work with them for a new or remanufactured pump. If you still feel a "Notchy" "soft lock to lock" go through the procedure of bleeding the hydraulic system. If you find that the pump needs to be replaced you have two choices of replacement. (1) remove the pump from the valve block manifold so you don't have to rebleed the system. (2) remove the pump and block valve manifold as an assembly and before installing the new pump flush the entire hydraulic system to confirm there isn't any contaminates in the system that could cause a repeat failure of the check valves in the pump.Then bleed the hydraulic system with new pump installed. There seems to be many Tugs and Cuts with this issue. It may be a that there were many defective pumps manufactured by Garmin or during the boat build contaminants were introduced in the hydraulic lines and and when hydraulic system was filled and bleed some contaminates remained and eventually found their way to the check valves causing them to leak by. I have heard both versions.
 
I would say that I have noticed a gradual degradation of the steering effectiveness. I made an assumption that air was in the system. Now I understand that the problem seems fairly prevalent with the Garmin pumps. I’m going to do the test and I will post my results. I’m gonna do it Saturday
 
Also I have not added any fluid to the helm. To me the top appears to be a sight glass and seems full so I’ve been reluctant to do anything.
 
Ok , so today I added fluid to my trim tab reservoir, and it resolved the issues associated with that. Hardest part of that job is squeezing a 58 year old body into the space. I isolated the the Garmin auto pilot pump and got a hard lock to lock at helm , so that pump with 3.5 years of use and 150 hours failed.
I’m going to contact Garmin and touch base with fluid motion.
I’ll report back here. Brian I was gonna swap out the pump and leave the manifold so I don’t have to bleed the system, unless you suggest otherwise?
 
I recently went through this with Garmin. The have an exchange program; you send them the bad pump they send you a good one, around $400 (decent deal, as a new pump is ~$1200). But the pump comes with manifold attached and they expect the returned one to have the manifold.

If you do this, make sure you note what type of connector retainers are on the two cables coming off the pump. It's probably threaded collars, but in my case the controller requires 1/4 turn collars and the new pump had threaded collars, so I'm still working with Garmin on what to do about that.
 
Can’t I just take the new one off the manifold and swap it that way?
 
Yes, remove the manifold from the new pump. Inspect the oring seals if they appear to Be in good condition reuse install manifold to new pump based on installation instructions. After the manifold is installed and electrical components connected open valves in the manifold. Turn the helm lock to lock to confirm proper operation. If the steering operation is functioning properly no other action is needed. Install the removed valve manifold to the old pump and return.
http://static.garmin.com/pumac/1.2L-2.0 ... ion_EN.pdf
 
Can’t I just swap the pumps off the manifold? Did you have the email or phone number contact for this part ?
Thank you
 
Wow Brian you’re quick.
 
Same issue. We had a helm leak for over a year in our C28–helm fluid dripping into head. Replaced helm seals. Then replaced auto pilot pump because still an issue. Fingers crossed, so far no more leaks. Still pulls to port but not as much. Will look at trim tabs.
Thanks everyone for great info. I’m sure you’re helping out many people with it!


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