Stern Lines

[FWTMD]

I am still doing an armchair evaluation of the R-29, until the weather turns and boat shows begin.

One of things I notice is that there is a lot going on around the stern cleats on the boat. Pictures showing a standard dock tie-up are sparse. It appears that if one does a normal cross of the stern lines, that under any pull on the lines they would push into the cushions of the seat backs on the port and starboard sides, which would damage them. Then you have a railing above the cleats, and finally railings on the swim platform to thread lines through.

That is, if I am piecing together the angles correctly.

There are cleats on the corners of the swim platform, but that seems inherently less secure.

What is the accepted wisdom on the proper way to secure the stern lines?

 

[allenrbeck]

In the PNW, I cannot recall the last time I've seen anyone use a stern tie at a dock, with the exception of very large vessels. Stern (and bow) ties often require more dock space for the lines (depending on where dock cleats are located) and dock space is often at a premium. Dockmasters will generally discourage it and a lot of folks think it's downright impolite to have your line angle take up an additional 4 - 8 feet of dock space. It seems like most folks in the Ranger/Cutwater family in the region use breast and spring lines, as there are plenty of cleats to accomplish that. I currently have a R27OB and a R29 coming in the next couple of months, but they both have the same onboard cleat placement, so I don't foresee any line/tie issues. It also seems that the majority of the R29s here have the RIB on the swim deck, which makes the stern tie literally impossible without some serious consequences. Just my opinion and YMMV.

 

[FWTMD]

Allen, thanks for the detailed reply.

That is really interesting. You are in PNW and my experience is the Chesapeake Bay. You can’t recall anyone relying on stern lines. I lived and breathed sailing until 30, but that was 35 years ago, and I can’t recall ever seeing a boat tied up that did not use stern lines. Times have changed, or customs differ in the different regions.

I’m curious. Are floating docks the norm there? When I last boated that was a rare luxury. I can see how your method would be just fine with that.

In my youth few piers floated, a finger pier was typical on one side only, making bow and stern plus a spring line on one side only the universal arrangement.

With your arrangement common in PNW it’s understandable how a PNW boat builder has optimized cleats for PNW conditions.

I did not mention the complications of a RIB on the stern but it was on my mind. Because of my imbedded assumptions about stern lines I have pondering what can be done about cabin top storage of a RIB.

None of this should be a deal killer. Others have adapted. This old dog can still learn new tricks.

Thanks again.

 

[allenrbeck]

You're correct about docks. All of them i'm familiar with are floating because of the large tidal variations we routinely have - between 10 - 12+ feet and more on king tides. Having lived in CT myself, I know of what you speak. Different strokes...

 

[NorthernFocus]

...Times have changed, or customs differ in the different regions.

I’m curious. Are floating docks the norm there? When I last boated that was a rare luxury. I can see how your method would be just fine with that....

Tidal variations in PNW and north pretty much dictate either floating docks or mooring buoys. Also the advent of more durable floating docks have made it much more practical down south as well. We lived aboard for several years in Clear Lake, TX, where there is only a couple of feet of tidal change. And all of the big marinas there had floaters.

 

[FWTMD]

Great info.

I'm curious about another piece of the puzzle.

The piers of my youth also had pretty short finger piers, and only on one side. What is the typical finger pier design? Longer floating finger piers, and definitely a pair of them, would really change what the smartest approach, and most secure approach, would be.

 

[Navigator's Son]

I would think that's where you would use the midship cleats.

As allenrbeck mentioned, first thing you'd have to do is lose the dingy from the swimstep. Ranger supplied fenders built in to the swimstep so you could stern tie, if that is what's available in your area.

Use the stern cleats / ties to secure your swimstep to the dock, and then use your midship cleats to get the angles you need to keep your bow from swinging

 

[FWTMD]

Robert:

Now imagine how I've been looking at RIBS hanging off the back and just shaking my head. 😀

Its a matter of the lens you are viewing things through. For me, its the experience of my youth.

No matter what, I'll just never be able to make the leap to any reliance on the swim platform fenders. The seamanship I was taught young was that fenders are a fail-safe, but if NEEDED at any time its because something went wrong. You tie off in a manner where the boat doesn't touch anything hard.

Times change, and I will have to also. To a point. :lol:

 

[FWTMD]

Allen:

I won't be buying and keeping a boat while still here in CT. Lots of reasons but distance from home to water is a big one.

But I do have to say that going down to Noank and sitting on the lawn at Abbott's and tucking into a 3 lb lobster while looking out over the cove is definitely one of my favorite happy places. I'll miss that when I move away, but then again I'll be returning to other happy places.

 

[Chimo]

We boated with powerboats on the Chesapeake for almost 20 years. The first place we tied up was at Charlestown Marina and later at Skipjack Cove on the Sassafras. Of course both were stern tie locations as is usual in the area. The finger piers were short and in a crosswind docking between the pilings and staying in one's own slip was often "interesting". We had a 28 foot Carver at the time. There were Weaver snap davits on the swim platform used with standoffs to take care of the dinghy. Often the dinghy would be deflated and hauled aboard if we were going to leave the boat for some time. That enabled us to cross tie easily. If we were only away for a short period and the weather was fine we would pull the boat forward and drop the dinghy astern on the davits. We never found a good solution to cross tie with the dinghy raised.

When we returned to the PNW life became so much easier in terms of docking. Even before the Ranger tug with thrusters having a floating dock often with long finger piers was a joy. The twin outboards on the C-Dory 23 Venture pulled me nicely stern first into the slip and there wasn't the drama of trying to either lasso the pilings off the bow or simply retrieve the bow lines from where you would left them dangling. When we changed to an R 25 SC in a floating boathouse life got even simpler.

As a last comment, those little cleats on your swim platform are only for tying off the dinghy!

 

[FWTMD]

Chimo:

Ah, the Sassafras. That is a beautiful river. I anchored there one night in a cove not far from the mouth, and tooled upriver the next day. A grand day. A restaurant in one of the marinas (The Granary) was at least for a while a great spot. Drove there for dinner one night years ago.

My last boat was a small cruising sailboat of traditional design. Cape Dory 25. Basically a V berth, a head, and a cockpit. It was camping, which was fine at that age. I was living and working in the Baltimore area so kept it in Middle River. With a max hull speed of just over 4 knots, my cruising range was limited on a weekend, and even for vacation weeks. The Sassafras was as far north as I made it, and the Little Choptank River as far south.

Shucks, in a Ranger, any Ranger I could make it down to Norfolk in a day. Circle the Delmarva in well under a week. In a week I can be in Charleston on the ICW. I'm getting my head wrapped around that range.

My last cruise before selling it, with a kid on the way, was to Queenstown. It was a stinking hot night with plenty of mosquitoes. A Grand Banks trawler swung in and anchored beside me, and I was awestruck. Some serious envy was in play as I watched the distinguished owners drop the hook with a windlass, fire up the generator and turn on the AC as I sweated and swatted bugs. I watched them open the REFRIDGERATOR for ice, mix some drinks and sit in actual chairs for cocktail hour. All night long as I sweated in the tight V berth I listened to the hum of his generator and AC. I swore then that my next boat would be when I could afford something traditional like that, with the amenities like that. So imagine my reaction when, not looking, I stumbled upon a beautiful shot of a Ranger Tug. The addiction to the water returned in force, and there was the means to an old vow. The conversion to maintaining so many mechanical systems will be ... interesting.

By the way, the home port will be somewhere in the Kent Narrows / Kent Island area, near a home I still have in MD. Too soon to be getting too specific about marinas.

And about those "little cleats". Yeah, I can't really judge their size in the photos I have to work with, but using them in the docking conditions I remember just feels wrong. Hence, why I asked these questions at the beginning. But in the luxurious docks you chaps in the PNW seem to have? Sure. Not judging that. By the way the RT29 owner's manual labels them as dingy cleats.

Its a small world.

 

[FWTMD]

I stumbled upon this video last night when doing a basic search on local marina options. I thought that some of you in the PNW might be curious.

This is what those of us in the East, certainly the Chesapeake, need to account for in dockline practices. We get storm surge flooding, when heavy rain adds water to the bay, coming out of the rivers while wind direction is pushing water up the Bay causing water to just back up. Normal tidal ranges might be a foot or two. But periodically that can change to 4 to 6 ft above normal high tide. It only happens this much once every several years. Just rare enough to become complacent about the risks.

Or, the reverse effect but to a lesser extent.

If you are nearby you can make adjustments. But not if you are away traveling.

In those conditions you need the geometry of long docklines, crossed on the stern, and long springlines. And then be sure obstructions like swim platform rails are not being pushed up, down, or around by the changes in the angles.

Floating docks are uncommon on the Bay.

For what it's worth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIdp-KDwwLM