Teething Problems

[Levitation]

It has been interesting being at the dock at this busy marina on the Gulf Coast of Florida with a locally well known restaurant beside us... Because of hundreds of people a day going past numerous people have come to ask about our "cute" boat...
More interesting has been the number of tug owners who have found me... Two in particular stand out...
Don from Michigan who is waiting on the build of a new R27.. This is his third tug in a few short years... Said he tried a Marine Trader in between #2 and #3 and quickly realized he had a lot more fun on the tugs and he traded the MT back in on a new tug...
And a local gentleman (remain nameless) with a 1 year old R27 that is an albatross around his neck... He has been towed in twice now because of engine shutdowns... His battery bank went dead when on an overnight trip (that switch between the batteries and the charger)... And the boat is now up on the lift beside his home waiting for the dealer to come and service it for yet another warning on the engine monitor... He feels his dealer service is slow...
It seems that engine problems - Cummins and now Yanmar - are the major source of teething problems on new tugs - along with the usual issues, thrusters, wiring not hooked up, fresh water pump, clogged faucets, etc...

OTOH, it is not just boats... My daughter just had her brand new Mercedes (60 days old and she has driven it exactly 3 days) hauled away by the factory and they are building her a new car...

 

[baz]

I hope Ranger Tugs isn't growing too quickly and letting their QC suffer... 🙁 Sorry to hear of the problems.

[Edit]
I will add that Ranger Tug has second to none in after Sales customer support and would strongly advise the R27 owner to contact Ranger Tugs (Andrew Custis or Jeff Messmer) to discuss the engine issues ASAP to get things resolved. I'm sure either one would go out of their way to get help to the R27 owner in question.

For me personally I cannot stress how important it is to not hesitate in calling Ranger Tug's customer service for help in these matters. Whenever I call in with an enquiry they answer immediately or almost immediately 7/24 and provide the very best advice and/or trouble shooting process.

Quite honestly, I will also say that Ranger Tug's customer service is akin to what I've received from Apple Computer customer service over past 15 years and which is rated the best in the consumer computer business... and that's saying something IMO.

 

[Andrew Custis]

It would be nice to know who the R27 owner is so we can help. If anyone might have this information, I would like to get involved on this one.

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

On the flip side of teething problems I'd like to share a very good story on what could have been a problem situation. Recently I had my boat out of the water and when relaunched our air conditioning worked just fine the first day back in the water. On the second day the pump stopped pumping water and therefore the air did not work. I checked the sea strainer, it was clean and water was flowing. I emailed Andrew and explained the situation and asked that he make contact with me on Monday, as it was Saturday. A short while later he emailed me from his Grandparents home in Arizona with suggestions and followed up with a phone call. Based on his guidance I performed a few more tests to see if we had an air lock, we had no additional success. I emailed him back with the results and explained to him we were not in a panic and that we could talk when he got back into the office the following week. Within an hour he had made contact with Their Dometic rep (Cruiseair) and the fellow was calling me, on a Saturday. We performed two more tests and concluded it was a bad pump. The bottom line was that Andrew and by proxy Ranger Tug went way out of their way to help, even when I asked that it wait until normal working hours. The Dometic rep called me on a Saturday per Andrews request and our problem was corrected in short order. All boats are going to have problems, some more then others, but I think we (at least we do) feel blessed to have Ranger Tug standing behind us when we have a problem, to help us get back to boating.

 

[eric]

My problems are slight I guess. Fresh water keeps blocking up with junk. I just keep cleaning filters.
Radio is a pain to operate and very poor reception. A few grounding wires were not hooked up in bilge area.
Every time I use my Tug I find screws that have partly or totally unscrewed themselves. I put a small dab of sealant and put them back in.
But its all part of owning a boat I guess. And I dont mind little things.
I do enjoy my Tug.
Eric Hughes EC 21 Mechanicsburg Pa

 

[Bruce Moore]

As relatively new boaters (this is our 4th season), we've encountered some of these "usual" problems. And they seemed like big deals, compared to simpler things in life, like cars for instance.

But we received such unprecedented support from the factory and this community, and those problems and resolutions became part of the fabric of our growing confidence and competence as boaters. Everyone from the president of the company to the cabinet maker has directly and positively impacted our experience. So much so, we bought another Ranger Tug.

The key to this positive experience has been our dependence on the good people at Ranger. We reach out, and they respond. I can't imagine the poor guy in Florida has done the same. I know the team at Ranger would much rather he be happily cruising and enjoying his boat.

Denny-o has shared his plight with all of us, but we can't fix his boat. I hope he also encouraged "nameless" to go to the source. That would be the right thing to do.

Cheers,

Bruce

 

[abcandjrc]

I hope Ranger Tugs isn't growing too quickly and letting their QC suffer...

Always scary. We lived on a Crealock 37 for 5 years and it was the "perfect ocean boat" as far as we were concerned. We never heard of quality control problems but were uncomfortable as Pacific Seacraft expanded their line of Bill Crealock designed boats to the acquisition of Erickson, a boat fitting into a markedly different market place. Then they got into building "fast trawlers" (an oxymoron at best) and another stretch of capability.

It wasn't too long until they were in bankruptcy. I suspect as builders of only the Crealocks, they would still be there. Fortunately the molds for the Crealock boats are still available but currently on a one-off, custom-built basis by the acquirer (who also bought the company name). Here is a statement from their "About Us" tab. While it is not the intent of Pacific Seacraft to rest on our laurels with respect to emerging technologies, it is our intent to get back to the core values that nurtured the loyal following that Pacific Seacraft still enjoys today. I hope they stick to it.

The story could be told about many a now-missing boat-builder. It is easy for them to cry "it's the economy", or "it's the luxury tax" or such, but generally it is poor business planning. Otherwise how do the other companies survive the same "externals"?

 

[Levitation]

I have PM'd Andrew with what info I have...
I do not have a problem (just so there is no confusion)... Nameless is not me...
Andrew walks on water as far as I am concerned...

Do notice in my post that there is a 3 time repeat customer within a 7 year period... So Ranger does hit home runs...
I now regret my original post as it is being taken as beating up on Ranger - not my intent at all...
I think that for me, this thread is done...

cheers

 

[Andrew Custis]

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to be sure and follow up on this thread to make sure this "nameless" customer was taken care of and wasn't waiting for some warranty repairs to be done. After speaking with Marc Grove (Wefing's Marine) it turns out that Marc had received a phone call recently from one of his customers that purchased the vessel close to one year ago. The customer keeps his boat on a lift in Florida and it happens that the boat fell off of the lift and did some cosmetic damage to the hull sides. Since the customer did not purchase a trailer with his Ranger Tug, Marc Grove offered to drive 400 miles each way and come pick the customers boat up on a Wefing's Marine trailer at no charge to the customer. I don't think customer service gets any better than that. Thank you Marc!

The engine alarm that is happening on this vessel sounds like a battery alarm situation. The vessel's batteries were discharged when the call had taken place which caused the engine alarm to sound. Marc Grove is planning on checking all systems on the boat to ensure everything is in good working order before it is delivered back to our customer.

Thank you,
Andrew Custis
Customer Service Manager
Ranger Tugs & Cutwater Boats

 

[SlackwaterJack]

And as Paul Harvey would say, ".................

 

[Jake]

I think teething is a relative term. I started reading this forum because I thought the Ranger Tug would be a great boat for my wife and I. Will I buy one, no. But it doesn't really have much if anything to do with the quality of a Ranger. It's because a Ranger Tug is not a 25 foot bowrider. In other words, you don't just jump in, take off and probably never need more than routine service for quite some time. And you probably don't just zip it on the trailer and drive 30 minutes to the dealer to have any little things fixed. It's a much more complicated machine and you will get much more enjoyment out of it if you have some mechanical skills (which I don't). You have to match the owner and the boat to have a successful relationship. Kind of like buying a Land Rover and living 4 hours from the dealer rather than a domestic SUV and living 10 minutes from the dealer.

 

[baz]

I think teething is a relative term. I started reading this forum because I thought the Ranger Tug would be a great boat for my wife and I. Will I buy one, no. But it doesn't really have much if anything to do with the quality of a Ranger. It's because a Ranger Tug is not a 25 foot bowrider. In other words, you don't just jump in, take off and probably never need more than routine service for quite some time. And you probably don't just zip it on the trailer and drive 30 minutes to the dealer to have any little things fixed. It's a much more complicated machine and you will get much more enjoyment out of it if you have some mechanical skills (which I don't). You have to match the owner and the boat to have a successful relationship. Kind of like buying a Land Rover and living 4 hours from the dealer rather than a domestic SUV and living 10 minutes from the dealer.

Hmmmm -- We've owned our R25 since Aug 2009 (i.e., 2 years and 7 months) and it's been kept in salt water since then. I've only had routine service performed such as zinc inspections and the 50 hour engine service. I replace the engine zincs myself as it's very easy and takes no more than 15 minutes. The one exception beyond routine servicing was the Garmin auto pilot which required a relocation of the `balance' valve to be below the helm's wheel center line. Ranger Tugs (Andrew Custis) facilitated this and put me in touch with Garmin and the re-work was done without any fuss at zero cost.

It's only recently that I've taken the boat out of the water to have the bottom paint redone... and this is a routine service IMO.

I'm reasonably handy, and besides, I like to try my hand at things unless I feel my skill level or expertise is lacking.

I do agree that you need to match your desires, mechanical skills, boatmanship and `love of the water' to the boat you chose to own.

Even though Ranger Tug's home base is in the PNW Seattle area and many Ranger Tug owners can be 1000s of miles away from this area does not mean you cannot contact them for help for any reason related to their products. This `remoteness' should not be a negative IMO.

My bottom line in response to your post is that my wife and I did just jump in the R25 and have had no real issues of importance from the onset and have not needed anything done to the boat beyond routine servicing for close to 3 years now with close to 250 hours on the engine. We do not feel the R25 is a complex machine beyond our understandings.

Final words... like anything you buy these days that involve new technologies, you need to provide time to learn how to operate the technology, be it the overall boat's operations, electronic navigation, radios, electrics, etc. The learning should be fun... 🙂

 

[SEEKER]

RIght on "Baz"! I can't agree more with what you said. Living in Alaska and buying our first Ranger 25 last year we have had nothing but exceptional service from Ranger and specifically Andrew. We had some very minor things that needed attention as well as the whole recall on the engine hoses and Ranger supported use all the way and at no cost to us. We have no local dealer here in Alaska and I feel like I could get factory help at any time with a phone call.

The boat is very simple, it's not a complex machine at all, it has a hull, a ruder and a motor the only thing it doesn't have is auto parking. You don't need anymore "know how" or mechanical skill to run this boat than any other boat of it's size.

 

[abcandjrc]

I think teething is a relative term. ........It's because a Ranger Tug is not a 25 foot bowrider.........

Unfortunately, you are comparing, I guess, kiwis to chili peppers. The boats you are comparing are not comparable. We have a Ranger 21. One of its main attractions was it's simplicity. We come from sail via twin engine long-range-cruiser (LRC aka "trawler"). The sailboat was a world cruiser with sophisticated systems but easy to maintain. It had a normally aspirated 44 horse Yanmar, and all the comforts of home except space. We lived aboard for 5 years. We noticed that much of the time we sailors only put up our sails to show other sailboats that we had them. (We went from Cocoa, Florida, to Beaufort, North Carolina, an average of 100 miles off shore riding the Gulf Stream, with no wind at all. We motored for 87 hours.) We also got space-hungry. The LRC had less sophisticated systems and six times the living space but wore me out keeping all the power plants running and correcting all the errors 20 years of "routine service" and upgrades introduced. Three reverse-cycle air conditioners, multiple electric heads and Lectrasans, gen set, inverter, etc., etc. I got burned out doing maintenance as we lived on it another 3 years and did not touch another boat for 7 years.

But the bug bit, again, and I discovered the Ranger 21 and bought one within a couple weeks. I have not regretted it. Is it "perfect"? No. Do you know anything that is man-made that is? But it is "perfect" for what I need right now. I have even found some things I really don't like about it. I have written about some of them on here and seem to have rubbed a few folks the wrong way doing it. Sorry ( :lol: ). Some of those things have already been corrected in later production like the clueless folding mast that overhangs the trailer and dragged the all-around light through the trees on the side of the road (as long as it lasted) on our first time out. Some I have fixed myself, but I would have probably lived with them, "almost happily", if I didn't have the skills necessary to do the changes myself. (Except for the ridiculous location of the windshield wiper motor right under the compass. I hope "the third time is the charm" since I am 3 iterations into working out that problem. What were they thinking???????)

If you really would rather have a bow-rider, that is fine. We all have different needs and desires. But I would bet your "routine maintenance" and "little things" over the lifetime of the boat will be significantly higher than if you buy the Ranger. So will your speed, but your fuel costs will be an order of magnitude higher. A valid trade-off. Like they say: "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce!" But any time spent on the water, no matter in what, is better than sitting in front of the tube. Have fun!

 

[Jake]

Yes, I tend to make extreme comparisions to make a point. Let's just say a Ranger is more boat than I'm capable of taking on. 🙂

 

[JamesTXSD]

Yes, I tend to make extreme comparisions to make a point. Let's just say a Ranger is more boat than I'm capable of taking on. 🙂

Every boat owner has different needs. While that was a pretty extreme comparison, if you want a cabin-type boat, capable of comfortable living in a compact form, seaworthy, trailerable, quality built, diesel powered, and good factory support... well, Ranger is at the top of a very short list. Drop any of the above attributes, and you get more boat manufacturer choices. It seems to me that Ranger doesn't "build in" complication, they offer more amenities. A boat with an electrical system, a galley, a full head with shower, etc, etc, is by definition going to be "more boat" than a bowrider or any basic cabin-type boat. I agree that the Ranger line isn't for everyone looking for "a boat," but if one is looking for what they offer in a boat, they are certainly at the top of their niche.

There are differences between a scooter and a Honda Goldwing motorcycle... a pop-up camper and a nice motorhome... a basic econobox and a Mercedes... and a day running around the lake and a season exploring the coast. Picking the right boat for the way you will use it doesn't make other boats "wrong"... try spending a month cruising on a bowrider and let us know how that works out for you. (Just making an extreme comparison there)

A boat (like a home, a car, an RV, an appliance, a power tool, etc, etc) needs regular maintenance. Living in a water environment means a different skill and mind-set, but that isn't something that is beyond those who are willing to learn (or pay).

Best wishes,
JIm B.

 

[Nellie Too]

Jim,
What a great input. I agree with everything you said about the Ranger boats. You cannot select a better boat or company.
The boat and support are beyond compare.
Bob

 

[knotflying]

Well, I have had my share of issues on my boat, some of which seem similar to our disappointed R-27 owner, but response from Andrew, my dealer, Winter Island Yachts and the suppliers has been impeccable. There are many systems on our boats and the environment is one of the worst for electrical and mechanical systems. As my dealer said, “It’s a boat, things happen” and he is right. I wonder about the merits of a computerized engine system in such a hostile environment, but the manufacturers of these engines were forced into this due to emission requirements. Hopefully, they will support our issues as they develop.
If you own a boat you better be able to do a lot of the work yourself or have a lot of time and money to get things fixed by someone else. This is true of any boat. Our disappointed Tug owner should take advantage of other’s experiences by reading the posts and doing searches. Not being familiar with the systems can be daunting, but once you learn how they operate and become familiar with the symptoms of problems, the fix is easy or at least manageable. For the most part I am preaching to the choir. The Tugnuts site is an invaluable tool for ideas, fixing things and mostly the camaraderie and friendships that it fosters. Ownership of a Ranger is also becoming a member of a great community and I am so glad to be a part of it.
Hopefully R-27 Anonymous will hang in there.
Mike Rizzo

 

[SlackwaterJack]

These boats can be highly complex and utilize many different systems, each must work together after being installed by a third party into a boat that may be owned by someone that may or may not be capable of maintaining everything (or anything). Happy boat owners are generally those that will / can fix it themselves or can afford to pay someone to do it. Happiness also depends on being honest with yourself about your own abilities and communicating with those that can help you.
I have my doubts about "anonymous" ever being happy. When someone speaks about constant boat trouble and falls to mention it fell off the lift...what else wasn't deemed to be important enough to mention?

 

[captaincook]

I am on Tugnuts all the time and while I don't do a lot of posting, I just had to weigh in on the Teething Problems of a new R29. I took delivery last September. Since that time I have had the Generator pulled out to fix an over run problem (3 weeks without a generator). I had a water leak, which Ranger was able to guide me to the problem, a coolant leak at the water heater, which turned out to be loose clamps, and now I have a Battery Charger/Inverter issue. I am working through the problems, and as others have stated, Ranger has been great in supporting me, along with my Dealer in Florida. I guess my reason for writing this is to say, every once in a while you buy something that has problems. I don't like problems any more than the next person does; but in the grand scheme of things, with a good Dealer and Factory support, these are only small road bumps of Boat ownership. Besides, I sure have learnd a lot about my R29, that I may not have had the opprotunity to learn.