Tell me about your Ranger 21

T

timmy

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
10
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
I was seriously considering a 21 Ranger tug but I have some important questions. Could anyone answer these please?
1 I'm a fairly good operator but will she handle 4 foot waves?
2 Does the aft drain well in bad seas?
3 Can you run the diesel like a generator when you sleep for the AC?
 
Hi,
1. I''ve been in 4 ft waves while at anchor and while underway and it handled it fine. I wouldn't head OUT in 4 foot seas...but if I was caught out I'd feel very secure heading back in. To be very clear...I wouldn't want to leave the dock into 4 foot seas in a 30 foot boat.
2. I've ever yet taken any water over the sides due to waves of any size, maybe a small bit of windblown spray. for you to get more than 500 GPM into the cockpit you'd need to be in waves much bigger than 4 foot.
3. I can't speak about the A/C because my R-21 ('05) didn't come with it, Maybe someone with an R-21EC can answer that.

You can also search the Tugnuts archives on the topic of R-21 and R-21EC seaworthy-ness or cockpit draining etc. I'd recommend reading anything under R-21 or R21EC.
 
We have an R-21EC that we use out of Cape May, NJ, in the ocean and lower Delaware Bay. Here are my thoughts, based on some -- but not vast -- experience in waves of the size you mention. (For calibration, I believe the waves I describe are 4-5 feet, but I have come back to the dock to have other folks tell me they were 6-8 feet; I stand by my estimates, but they are just estimates.) In general, I am very impressed by the seaworthiness and handling of the R-21EC.

If you are heading straight into sufficiently short, steep 4-foot waves, you will probably stick the bow under some of them (depends on your speed, the length of the waves, steepness, etc.). This is not life-threatening, but it gets your attention. In my experience, the forward deck drains quickly and not much water gets into the cockpit. These conditions can be fun for a while, but, speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to do it for a long time. There is a LOT of boat motion.

If you are running with these waves, the boat is dry and should not broach, but you must be vigorous with the wheel.

If you cannot avoid running across these waves, I would think you would be very unhappy. There will be much uncomfortable rolling, but even larger boats would likely be uncomfortable. Some waves will likely break into the cockpit, depending on exact wave shape, which brings me to your next question...

I have had solid water roll into the cockpit, but not a lot. If it happens more than once, I take it as a message to change course enough to stop it. In my limited experience, the bilge pump has managed just fine. I don't know what would happen if a course change was not an option. In my experience, the boat has never rolled down so far that water pours over the side -- my cockpit water has come from individual waves.

I don't have air conditioning, so I defer to others. I believe that air conditioning runs on 110V, 60Hz. The diesel normally charges a 12V battery. I rather doubt that any practical (for an R-21) battery/inverter combination would be adequate to run air conditioning.
 
Thanks for the replys, It sounds as sea worthy as a 21 footer can be and I've run a 17 in the waves I speak of. I believe the Ranger has a 12 volt DC Air Conditioner so it should run fine with just the diesel. I just wondered if you could let the diesel run all night or if that would be harmfull to the engine. I know they make 12 volt diesel generators but a small gasoline generator with a good 12 volt charger should handle the small load.
 
I have been out in 4 foot plus waves in my EC21 and it handles just fine. Due to the design, if you attacking waves bowards, most water will run off the deck without reaching the cockpit. It is a relatively comfortable ride in heavy seas but always remember that, strong and well designed as the EC21 undoubtedly is, it is still only a 21 foot boat!
I am still recovering from a broken arm caused just after Christmas jumping onto a boat in a heaving sea (not a tug) so I have not taken the tug out for 6 months unfortunately. However it is winter here in Perth Australia with occasional big swells and I confidentally expect to be out in them shortly, happy that the tug will acquit herself well.
Ogger
 
In my experience on the Chesapeake Bay, which often has 4-5 foot swells, my old 25' Marathon handled the 4-5 foot swells fine when I was on step. My R21-EC can also handle the 4-5 foot swells at displacement speed, but it is not any fun. 2-3 foot swells are fine with me. Handling any sea condition is as much the drivers experience and abilities, along with the drivers and passengers comfort level. I would not have a problem taking my R21-EC out in 2-3 foot swells, and it is also nice to know it can handle the 4-5 foot swells when needed. The ability to turn the R21-EC on a dime and leave 9 cents change when handling the rough unpredictable seas is very comforting.

Any waves I get over the bow have not drained into the cockpit. I seldom get any kind of water over the sides. If you are worried about getting a lot of water into the cockpit, you might consider getting a Bimini top with a camper package or getting some canvas covers (I don't know what you would call them) for the cockpit railing.

When I was ordering my boat, the factory recommended using the A/C only while using shore power. They did not recommend using it while underway or at anchor. We purchased a 12v box fan from West Marine, and it has worked well at anchor while sleeping. Someday, I want to install some 12v oscillating fans that will provide air to the cabin occupants and windshield during the day, and flip down to provide air to the bunk at night.
 
Thanks Rick,I guess I will need a small generator to run it while at anchor. That makes sense because the cooling water probably can't be sucked up easily to be circulated when moving. I don't believe it would even be needed while moving along with all the air flow through the cabin and the top for shade.
 
The previous writers pretty much summed things up: the R21EC handles well, but it's a small boat and one should watch the weather and water conditions. The cockpit is drained by a bilge pump; it does not have scuppers. The bilge pump could be critical. Three, the AC unit is 12VDC run by two dedicated batteries. I only ran my unit once, to winterize it the first winter I owned it, not knowing if it might have water in the system. I think, at best, one has a max of 200 amp hrs. available from those batteries. Don't recall the amperage draw of the unit. But, add the draw of the raw water pump and the unit, take that total and divide the batteries capacity by it. That yields total hours available to run the system. However, it is recommended that one never run those batteries down more than 50%, so that would yield only half the hours calculated above. And, there are inefficiencies in all systems, so that would further lower available hours from the batteries.

The diesel engine alternator is powerful, I think it is 75 or 80 amps. But, I don't know what the charging rate is or the type of controller. It may be setup for quicking charging of of starting battery and a slow charge rate after that. It might not provide enough charge to keep the AC batteries up while using the system for long periods, say over night.

Gene
 
Timmy,

Generators present problems. The R21EC doesn't have much room. I doubt one could install a proper diesel genset. I would think the only real practical use would be to run the battery charger. Introducing an AC system involves even more issues.

Problems: Space to store/mount a genset, grounding a genset, CO emissions, hot exhaust systems, gasoline, noise, ????

I've never done the calculation I mentioned before and would be interested in what you come up with for amount of time one could run the AC from fully charged batteries.

Gene
 
Since the factory recommended using the A/C only while using shore power and don't recommend using it while underway or at anchor I'm confused why they would go with a 12 volt system?

It would be nice on a slow moving craft to be able to travel with the AC running. You should be able to run everything even with a burst of the thruster on a double battery and the proper altenator. This sounds like something that could be corrected or engineered into the design.

For an example this unit http://www.tropicalmarineairconditionin ... 2volt.html
only uses 30 amps it's plenty big enough for the small cabin in a 21 footer. If the altenator is putting out 70 or 80 there should be plenty of power available for everything.
 
Timmy, you're the only one that has said the AC runs on 12V. I think it runs on 110VAC and you'd need an inverter to convert the DC to AC to run it underway.

Charlie
 
That's where I heard, right from the spec sheet and they have an extra charger available in the owners manual for the 12 volt A/C. It's an excellent idea to have it be 12 volts because in theory it really shouldn't need any external electricity to run it. So far it's basically a matter hearsay if it can be done or not. I haven't found any technical information supporting what the factory rep has said you can't do.
 
My former R21EC had a 12 VDC air conditioner. It had two batteries in the aft storage compartment dedicated to the air conditioner and a really good smart charger. I think it handled up to three battery banks, three types of batteries and was multi phase charging, including "float". The charger worked well for the two years I owned the tug.

Gene
 
rt11002003":1tqomdwj said:
My former R21EC had a 12 VDC air conditioner. It had two batteries in the aft storage compartment dedicated to the air conditioner and a really good smart charger. I think it handled up to three battery banks, three types of batteries and was multi phase charging, including "float". The charger worked well for the two years I owned the tug.

Gene
Click to expand...
Did you ever try it while underway with just the engine charging the batteries? From what I know using it while sitting still like a generator can cause glazing problems in a diesel's combustion chamber unless you bump the idle up to 1000 RPM, or burn it off by running the boat, then it should be OK to idle for long periods of time.
 
Can't help you with that question. I ran the unit once for a few seconds to winterize the system. It was a brand new boat and I didn't know if the system had water in it, or not.

You are correct, low rpm, light load is not good for diesel engines!!!!

gene
 
I found this video that shows her underway with the doors shut and the air conitioner blasting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujBE_UEw ... re=related
At 2:29 in the video you can see the A/C running with the drain flowing while running a smooth and steady speed at 2500 RPM. That answers my question and it looks like it's no problem to run the A/C while just using the diesel. 😉
 
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