Thruster trouble-shooting dumb question

R

rpmerrill

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
608
Fluid Motion Model
C-28
Vessel Name
BAY RANGER
OK, I've got one of the Trouble-shooting guides.

I have tried like heck to separate the "Amp connectors" so I can bypass the control. Not movin!
I'm looking for the magic trick that will unlatch the two halves.

My rear thruster just stopped working.
Fuses ok.
Full voltage at the fuses.
No voltage drop at the fuses when all when the joystick is pushed.
Hoping it is the control.
I know where the thruster is, but not where the solenoid is. I'm guessing it is somewhere don under the battery compartment or under the propane storage compartment/rear seat. How much deconstruction does it take to get there?

Help!
 
Just had my thruster rebuilt, the replaced parts they sent me included the solenoid and controller, both were contained within the body of the thruster. Are you trying to put 12 volts to your thruster without using the controls at the helm? With no voltage drop when you toggle the controls by the helm it would make sense the solenoid or controller is failing to function and your headed down the same road I was. Is your overall voltage good? You could try cleaning up the multi plug connector on one of the three electrical lines coming from the thruster, unplugging and plugging it several times can accomplish this. Also, while unplugged, check for voltage appearing on the helm control side of this connector when you actuate the toggle switch. Hope this helps, rich
 
There is a wiring harness just aft of the bow thruster, lying in the bottom of the bow. It's the one you disconnect when replacing bow shear pin. It can come loose. It did on me, but both thrusters went dead. Good thing to check anyway.

Dave
Lobo
 
tugnnaweigh":3mg2tnmh said:
Just had my thruster rebuilt, the replaced parts they sent me included the solenoid and controller, both were contained within the body of the thruster. Are you trying to put 12 volts to your thruster without using the controls at the helm? With no voltage drop when you toggle the controls by the helm it would make sense the solenoid or controller is failing to function and your headed down the same road I was. Is your overall voltage good? You could try cleaning up the multi plug connector on one of the three electrical lines coming from the thruster, unplugging and plugging it several times can accomplish this. Also, while unplugged, check for voltage appearing on the helm control side of this connector when you actuate the toggle switch. Hope this helps, rich
Click to expand...


Ya, so far on my personal trouble shooting I checked the fuses, and they seem good. Good continuity. Also, good connection since (no drop in voltage on the downstream when my wife wiggled the joystick) (shut up all you dirty minds out there).
So if the control switch isn't making the circuit, that would happen. OR if the solenoid isn't responding, that would happen.

Disconnecting the multi-plug connector is currently my dilemma. They look nice and clean but nothing I can do (or dare do) will get them apart. IF I could do that the trouble-shooting guide says to short out the various wires leading to the controller. If the thruster works then, it is the controller. If it doesn't work then it is in the solenoid back at the thruster.

It is possible the motor is suddenly totally fried and draws no current at all, but I am optimistically saying the motor is good.

Why did they have to but that thing so far back and down below the water line in the boat??? What a bitch to just look at it, let alone work on it... Oh, wait. Nevermind.

Thanks,
rich
 
I had the same problem with that plug, I drew a fine line on the inner one and put channel locks on each end and went left right up down pull pull left right up down pull pull while watching to see of the line indicated any movement and chanting don't break don't break. Looking back I'm thinking a blast of WD and a copla hour wait might of helped. On the reconnect I put some dielectric grease in.

They replaced the controller, solenoid and brushes which I figure gives my motor half again as much life as new. If you get the plug apart perhaps use a heavy amp meter in the jump across to quantify the amps the motor is drawing as opposed to what it should draw, this could give an idea of motor life left. I did a thread on thruster removal and reinstall and lessons learned there.
 
Well, I tried brute force and pliers. It worked... no real latches or internal snags. It was just tight. Thanks tugnnaweigh.

But, warning... Don't do what I did. I was holding onto the controller and put the wiring harness down.
Sluuurp, down the hole it went. It disappeared! I could only get my arm part way into the hole. I had to remove the entire power panel and stick my head,with big ears, into the hole. It took about 10 long hot minutes until I found it.

I did the bypass test at the harness and got nothin'. I didn't have the troubleshooting procedure with me but I knew that the next step is to move aft to locate and expose the solenoid controller on the stern thruster. Under the rear seat and Propane locker space. Ugh.

I can't even see back there except just the edges of a big sealed container. How accessible are the electronics?
 
AAAAhhhhhh, don't want to be the bearer of bad news; all the electronics are within that "sealed container" you can get a glimpse of. Folks here have written threads on increasing access to it on the R27, my thread covers the R25 for the actual removal and reinstall, some tips there that would likely apply to the R27 and there's pics in my album showing the two fasteners that hold it in place.

Over the boating years I've grown used to things you can barely see and can't see at all when you're working on them. This is one of those typical situations, be sure to have three people when you're putting it back in.

Oh, Yeah, amazingly stuck together connector for not having any latch or anything.
 
Three people! One outside, two inside?
So it would seem to me that this can't be done with the boat in the water?
Once the boat is hauled, this has to be dismounted from the transom? Right?
Then is it dis-assemble-able to diagnose the electrical fault? And is it repairable ? Or does the whole hunk have to be replaced?
?????$$$$$
 
Just re-read your posting from Saturday.
I'll have to be doing a bunch more checks for voltage around the harness but this is still pretty scary.
Are there some other connections that might be accessible for voltage checking or switch bypassing back by the thruster or are they all continuously wired.

thanks
 
I'm thinking we've been on a copla different pages here, I disconnected everything back by the thruster, didn't do any electrical checking. Mine had gone to that "coming on every now and again by itself" thing so I was comfortable just pulling and having it repaired. You're still up at the toggle switches by the helm. Also, I don't have a thread on this, just a reply on the recent "Improving thruster access" thread.

I'll catch up: Three people, one to wiggle the propeller so the two parts mesh, both parts are on the inside, one permanently on the transom, one the sealed thing you glimpse, remove, have repaired and reinstall. Pics of all are in my album. This can be done in the water because dismounting the thruster motor does not create a hole in the transom but you don't want to be the third guy who has to wiggle the propeller if the reinstall is done in the water!

Once I had it out of the boat and on my bench I considered repairing it myself, I can replace a solenoid, controller, cut the communicator on a motor and install new brushes but it's held together with like 22 fasteners so I sent it to the techs at the Factory and went and did something else I'd rather do.

In all seriousness, I've found Ranger Very reasonable on parts and Very reasonable on labor, it's that Steller Service you always hear about.

SO, now knowing where you're at, I'd go to the stern and disconnect the plug I've been referencing, it's on the smallest of the three electrical lines coming from the thruster body (and is going to fight you like the one up front) and actuate the toggle switches while checking for proper voltage on the toggle side of this plug. Voltage, you've got a bad thruster, no voltage, start working your way forward until you find voltage again upon actuation of the toggles.

You're be very much on the right track checking for voltage back by what's not working, that's where I thought you were the whole time. But don't look at me, I didn't even do that, I just pulled it and sent it away because it had been having symptoms of end of life.

Oh, and by the way, this ain't scary; pow, bang bang bang lots of smoky exhaust while underway is scary, this is what's known as BOAT FUN!

I'll find and post up that narrative on the removal and reinstall I put on that other thread.
 
Here it is:

Just finished this chore, here's what I learned:

REMOVAL: Only things in the way that had to be removed were two of the four batteries and some of the exhaust system. Then I had to put a cheater bar on the ratchet to break the fasteners loose. I unscrewed the first fastener until I couldn't get the ratchet out, so then I had to buy another ratchet. So just back each fastener out a little bit, working from side to side while pulling the thruster away from the transom mount to avoid ending up in this situation. I then lifted it out by gently holding it by the three electrical lines that go in its back.

INSTALLATION: i built handles out of packing tape per a tip here on the 'Nuts and lowered the thruster into place with the fasteners hanging it their holes. I found a 2 X 4 underneath held the thruster at the right elevation leaving just left to right and clockwise and counter clockwise adjustments necessary. Found out two people can't do it, need one on the propeller to wiggle it so the thruster will flush out with the mount. Then one person pushes it into the mount and rotates it per the instructions of the other person who's on the fastener on the side opposite of the first guy. As the fastener guy you're feeling for that tiny catch or wiggle or feedback that means the fastener is at the threaded opening and then you turn the fastener as much as you can by hand before sinking the other one by hand and proceeding to the ratchet for the final tightening. To help this I cleaned the threads of the fastener and used WD 40 on the threaded holes.

PICTURES: There's pics of much of this in my album, looking back, it actually came out fairly easily, get everything out of the way and then you're just unscrewing two fasteners; for the install have three folks and be ready for a bit more of a tussle.

On the Beer and Band Aids Scale I give the removal a 6.6 and the install a 9.2. Hope this is helpful.
 
Aha, Perfect. Now I follow completely.
Thanks for taking the time.
Looks like my next stop is to find the plug at the aft end of the harness.
No bang bang smoke, but my heart is still in my throat. That remove and replace sounds tough.
I like doing mechanical things. I work part time for a local Porsche restoration company. But I'm 68, an active, spry 68, but not as flexible as I used to be.
Stay tuned.

Thanks a lot
 
The factory can't understand why you are having such troubles installing. Heck, when they put it in, one guy leaned over the side of the hull and just shoved it in the hole :lol:
 
Actually, it would be tremendously helpful to have a collection of photos of the various models in the process of assembly to see where some of this stuff goes and what it is going to look like when I start searching for it upside down in the dark of the transom space.
Does anyone know if anything like this exists?
 
I am re-posting this to this thread and would like the ideas of the folks that have participated in this thread.....it seems to be part of the discussion.

As i knew (and dreaded) it would happen sooner or later, the shear pin on my stern thruster failed...2015 R25SC. I have neck and shoulder issues, and cannot get to the two bolts with enough oomph to do the shear pin change, even with the provided ratchet tool. I might be able to get the bolts undone, but no way am I gonna be able to get it put back together.

As I am in South Dakota, a long, long ways from a boat shop that could do this, and because we are often on very remote waters out on the prairie, I need to figure out a way to do this myself.

I am thinking about cutting out the front of the panel as shown by the shaded areas on the photo. I would place cleats, either teak or stainless, much like a sailboat companionway, to secure the panel in place. With the panel out, it seems like access to the stern thruster would quite easy....even for me.

Whaddya think? Bad idea? Good idea? Pitfalls?
Click to expand...

THANKS

TK

 
My thruster failed from water intrusion. In order to make the process of replacing Easier I put in studs with lock tight instead of the supplied bolts as others have done. This helps a lot on the reinstall as you need fewer hands, just some way to suspend the unit while hanging it from the studs. I don' think new access panels are necessary but again depends on your flexibility.
 
Studs...what a great idea! I have a good friend that is a car mechanic...the kind of guy that can fix anything. After looking at it, he says he can reach the bolts and was also saying that studs would make the whole thing lots and lots easier. Looks like both of your great minds were going down the same pathway.

So you recall the diameter and pitch of the studs that you installed. I live in a small town where an infinite range of stuff is not always available...especially metric stuff.

Cross your fingers...

TK
 
Sorry. I don't recall size. I purchased long stainless bolts (318?) and estimated the length they needed to be. Then cut off the heads coated the inserted ends with lock tight, counted how many threads needed to be in the stationary nut so I would know how many turns to put them in. I let them dry over night. I purchased extra lock nuts so I could fumble some when installing them. You might call the parts guy at ranger to give you the size. His name is Richard and he will probably measure one for you from off the shelf.

If you did not take out the fuses to inspect them rather than just check continuity that is a good idea. Sometimes they fracture and still read good.
 
Doug Kersten, NautiDream, posted (April 2009) an excellent blow-by-blow of how he changed the shear pin and fabricated studs which I did on my MY 09 classic. If I recall correctly I used M8 x 1.25 SS bolts, cut off head, slotted and installed.
 
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