To have a generator or not?

[Rwnorton]

I'm looking at R27's or C26's. Both are small, storage space is limited, and access to installed systems is complicated by the overall boat size. Most/many of these have solar panels. So on the negative side a generator takes space, adds weight, adds to the cost, and is one more item to maintain.

The main engine has an alternator in the 120-140 amp range. If one is underway for 3-4 hours during the day, won't this sufficiently recharge the batteries to spend a night or two at anchor? I want to cook with propane, use the inverter for the microwave and coffee pot and use the A/C only with shore power.

What am I missing? Why are generators so common? Or do I just need one for resale?
Thanks for any input.

 

[sleepyboat]

I have a 27 without generator and solar panel for the reasons you listed. Your thinking is correct and I do not believe you are missing much. But, when on the hook even with fully charged batteries I will start the engine while using the inverter, usually for short periods, micro wave and hair drier are the usual culprits. A coffee pot may take longer, I don’t use one. When I first tried using the inverter, it didn’t take long, without engine assist, for alarms to start blaring as the voltage went below useable limits.

I can only guess at why many people have them. Friends with boats tell you it is needed. Others want all the comforts of home and some get them by default because the dealer ordered it that way or the owner of the used boat they purchased had it built that way.

You have to decide what type of boating you are going to do. If you are moving, you are charging. Long spells on the hook with plenty of sun and a solar panel and limited power use may work. Changing your lighting to all LED saves greatly. But when your power reserves get low you are going to have to start your engine or your generator, your choice.

Good hunting,
John DeCaro

 

[walldog]

WE have had two Ranger Tugs with generators. We feel that while not absolutely necessary, since we spend several months aboard in remote locations that we had rather run the generator to take proper care of the expensive AGM batteries. You can run the main engine, however, running the main engine while stopped long enough to recharge the house batteries can harm the engine and be more expensive than running a generator. We do have a coffee pot that will work on our propane stove, but it is really more convenient to flip the switch on an already prepared electric pot and pop a frozen breakfast from the chest freezer in the microwave. In the PNW, it is usually cool enough in the mornings that we run the heat to take the chill off. Willie is very cold natured and requires it. A happy wife is a happy life. While our current boat does have diesel heat (our 27 had reverse cycle heat pumps), it is still is a drain on the house batteries especially with all the other items running to start our day. You will find plenty of data on this site for both views (to have a genset or to not have a genset). For us we prefer to have a generator on our Ranger Tug. The Onan being supplied by Ranger Tugs on their current models is a very good unit.

 

[Irish Mist]

It is a convenience that some are quite able to do with out. An in between option is a portable gas generator, less space needed and a lot less cost, but you need to bring gas , unless you get a propane conversion. We use our built in generator a lot when anchored. If our oven was gas we would probably use it a lot less. But there is something comforting in pushing a button and having all the comforts of shore power... The great thing is that you are down to this kind of a decision 🙂
Good luck

 

[jld]

I know that when this question comes up with RV's, sometimes the alternatives to adding a generator are to add an additional panel and/or add additional batteries.

If you go this route, you really need to do an energy audit, looking at the current draws while using the boat.

Bottom line is that it is an individual decision, based on personal usage of the boat/rv.

Jim

 

[BradOwens]

Most Ranger Tugs here in the Northwest don't have generators. We also don't usually have air conditioning. With a propane stove and diesel furnace, we just don't use much electricity. I generally run the engine when using the inverter, but not always. To me, a generator is not worth the cost, weight, or lost storage space.

 

[S. Todd]

We have a R25SC with a solar panel which keeps up the draw from the refrigerator. The alcohol stove does the cooking when we are not plugged in to run the microwave. The loss of storage space alone by adding the generator is enough to avoid it, let alone the peace and quiet you give up at anchor by running it, and the additional complexity of the systems and maintenance needs. If I had an unlimited budget, and the space of a forty footer, I might consider a generator, but otherwise it is a negative for me (and passed on buying a like new, less than 50 hours, 1 year old version of our boat when we ordered it just because we did not want the generator). (Of course, we like the kayak and bicycle as modes of transportation too, so there are others that would prefer it the other way.)

 

[Scuffy]

Sure you can get by without one. Since I'm not a fan of inverters I have my inverter turned off as I believe they are battery killers. Never have used my inverter. You can figure out how balance the additional weight on the port side which will cause the boat to list with the weight of the generator on the port side. We carry and inflatable paddle board (35 lb's) on the starboard side under the berth area with extra bottled water, seltzer, wine. The generator don't seem to me to be all that needy in terns of maintenance with a minimal amount of oil for oil changes and an impeller along with a zinc for the heat exchanger.
When we are in Florida or anywhere where it can be a muggy 85 degrees or above we sometimes run the generator to have air conditioning while cruising along. Anchored out we fire it up to make coffee and run a little breakfast sandwich maker in the am. We have a propane stove and a solar panel which does not make us rely on the generator too much. For us it's a nice feature to have along. Do you really need it? No, but you don't really need the boat either. Whether it's worth money is something I would try to have as part of my negotiation with the dealer when pricing the boat up. Maybe he could make a little less on the generator option. I think they do matter if you boat down in the south where it's hot. Our generator was part of a dealers existing stock package and it came with a generator. For me I like having it and it can't hurt resale value. The loss of that storage space where the generator resides does not effect us.
Happy Hunting

 

[Bruce Moore]

It's not necessarily an either/or situation. Another option worth considering is the EFOY methanol fuel cell battery charger. It is compact, light, relatively maintenance free, virtually silent, and economical. Based on our research and shared testimonials, it does a good job of bridging the gap between solar and generator. There's a good video overview on the Fisheries Supply website.

 

[Jake]

That EFOY is a neat hi tech solution. I wonder if it could easily be integrated into a solar setup with the EFOY functioning as a backup to the solar.

Jake

 

[NorthernFocus]

IMO I'd only have a gen set if there's no other way around it. And pretty much the only thing that there's no way around is if you need Air Conditioning. We don't even use an inverter other than a little 400W for charging laptop and camera batteries. We use diesel heat, propane stove, an Italian stove top moka machine, and run the 12V fridge a few hours a day when the engine is running. If we lay at anchor in one spot for more than a day then a couple hours of engine running tops up the batteries.

The diesel heater runs all night every night and draws almost nothing. It only pulls significant amps when starting up so rather than regulate it down we keep the cabin well ventilated and just let it run. Everything stays nice and dry that way too.

In the end it boils down to how many conveniences you want. If you want all electrical appliances like at home then it's probably a good idea.

 

[Bruce Moore]

That EFOY is a neat hi tech solution. I wonder if it could easily be integrated into a solar setup with the EFOY functioning as a backup to the solar.

Jake

Yes, they are complimentary. The EFOY is connected directly to the battery bank and monitors the batteries and comes on when they drop to a preset level. So, if the solar panel can't keep the batteries above that level (because of load or lack of sun) the EFOY automatically turns on to supplement the charge.

 

[Dale777]

rwnorton,

Let's see, you are in Charleston, SC - summertime hot and humid!

On my previous R27, when I took it home to Texas from Florida for the summers, I found any slow cruising on lakes in north Texas required the A/C to be running, insisted upon by my wife. I suppose if you cruise quite fast with windows open and a portable fan blowing at you (I mean her), you might keep the wife happy.

With our current R31 in Florida in May we just made a run up the Caloosahatchee River from Fort Myers Beach in which we encountered very hot and humid weather, just like north Texas in the summer. Boy does that A/C feel good. Inland Florida is really hot and humid. I can't imagine anchoring out in summertime Florida with no-see-ums and mosquitos flying all around while you try to keep cool with windows open and a little fan running.

I actually lived in Seattle several decades ago, so I know how cool it can be there mostly year round, so no A/C needed for the PNW.

 

[Rwnorton]

Thank you all. Maybe the answer should have been obvious to me. You northerners are happy with a source of heat and that doesn't require a generator. Southerners like their A/C and that requires the generator. So I guess I'm headed towards a generator.

 

[Captmike]

It's not necessarily an either/or situation. Another option worth considering is the EFOY methanol fuel cell battery charger. It is compact, light, relatively maintenance free, virtually silent, and economical. Based on our research and shared testimonials, it does a good job of bridging the gap between solar and generator. There's a good video overview on the Fisheries Supply website.

Hey Bruce, we had an efoy comfort installed by a professional boat electrician. The unit corroded out and quit. It's billed as a marinized unit but did not hold up. Additionally the methane has a use by date and if not used within the recommended time it will damage the unit. I have been in contact with the Fisheris management about the issues. They are not happy.

 

[S@LTD]

When we bought our C28 new we went with the NW edition since propane stove and the diesel heat were a must for us as to avoid listening to the generator just the cook. the LE edition essentially required the gen for everything. Even though we boat a lot in the PNW we wanted AC so we had the factory AC/reverse cycle heat added as well. For those who say you do not need AC in the PNW I always found it interesting how many Tugs and Cutwaters had water streaming out the side from the AC on Factory Desolation and Cutwater cruises. We have used the heck out of our AC from Comox to Lake Powell and many spots in between. We would not be without it.

Also, consider your access to a charging source. Lake Tahoe,Flaming George, Lake Powell, Mead and Havasu have minimal charging or slip availability can be difficult. We have a Honda 2000 gen that we have carried along and used a couple of times to run the AC at anchor and to heat up the hot water heater when on the hook for multiple days. After adding the second solar panel the Honda stays home most of the time as the AC is typically needed in marinas. I suspect when we head east the Honda will get used more with the AC while underway.

If we had it to do over again I would get the Northwest edition with a gen (best of all worlds). That way the solar, propane and diesel heat minimizes gen us for most things yet still have the gen for AC and heat up the hot water tank. I have even toyed with added the gen after the fact but it just doesn’t make economic sense.

I have noticed the R27 is only going to come in an LE edition going forward. That might work for those who do not stay out that long. My 2 cents from our experience.

 

[William Sanborn]

We have a non NW boat (no Diesel Heater) in the heart of the NW, and waking up on a cold winter morning it is nice to reach up and start the Generator and then turn on the heat pump before exiting the Bunk.

 

[herbandlori]

We have a R25SC with a solar panel which keeps up the draw from the refrigerator. The alcohol stove does the cooking when we are not plugged in to run the microwave. The loss of storage space alone by adding the generator is enough to avoid it, let alone the peace and quiet you give up at anchor by running it, and the additional complexity of the systems and maintenance needs. If I had an unlimited budget, and the space of a forty footer, I might consider a generator, but otherwise it is a negative for me (and passed on buying a like new, less than 50 hours, 1 year old version of our boat when we ordered it just because we did not want the generator). (Of course, we like the kayak and bicycle as modes of transportation too, so there are others that would prefer it the other way.)

In our 2015 R25SC, I take along an EcoFlow solar generator. There are many models. Mine is a Delta 2 with 1024 Watt hours. It can run our mini-nespresso (1100 W) and the single element induction cooktop (1800 W)wattages that the built in boat inverter cannot produce. These solar generators can be charged by solar panel, the Ranger AC adapter plug while on power, or by shore power DC. And I don’t have to worry about draws on the house battery, which is then mostly to keep the fridge going. This unit fits perfectly under the foot rest at the helm within easy reach of the AC adapter. At 27 lb, it can be easily moved. In good weather I prefer to cook in the cockpit. I removed the alcohol stove because it did not produce sufficient heat to sear/sautee and was not worth the safety issues of CO2 and alcohol storage and gave me more counter space.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

The only reason to have a generator is really air conditioning. that being said, as you say on a R27 or C26 there is very little space for one. BBMarine did a lot of write ups on his experiences with the C26 and heat in the engine bay that might not be great for a generator. Generators are notoriously temperamental. Worth searching for his posts.

with modern lithium batteries and solar and use where you move the boat every day or two, you don't need one.

I have AGM batteries with half the power and don't miss a generator. I have a 340w solar panel and I treat the boat like a boat and not a house when it comes to power