Tow truck requirements.

[kjoverbeck]

Hi all. We are Kent, Jane and dog Bandit. We are new to the forum and have just purchased a 2015 R 27, and are buying an aluminum trailer. First of all is a tandem axel trailer sufficient or do I need tri axel. I have a Toyota Tundra with the big motor,388 hp, with factory equipped tow package. They say max towing is 10,500 #. Does anybody have any experience towing this boat and trailer with this truck?
Thanks. Looking forward to meeting many of you Tugnuts.
Kent

 

[chicagosam]

Welcome to the forum!
A tandem axle trailer is fine as long as the axles are rated for the load. Check the GVW plate.
The factory specs out a tandem for the R-27.
Your boat and trailer weight will be close to 9k-10k all loaded up.

I have driven quite a bit through TN, and the hills and mountains will tax that Tundra. Stopping is a totally different discussion. If you are going short distances, not a big deal, but your gas mileage will be horrible. My buddy has a Tundra (same motor) and he gets 7-8 mpg towing a 24' camper (~5k lbs) - that's in flat Illinois corn country!

There is another thread going here on tow rig recommendations, it has some good advice in it.
Everyone has their own threshold for safety, your rig will be legal but real close to its limits.

My $.02

 

[vertigo]

I met another tugnut out at Sucia Island last weekend (there were at least eight of us in Fossil Bay one day) who tows his R25 with a Tundra, and if I understood correctly he would not want to tow a 27 with the same truck.

As for me, I'm towing my R29 on a 30k 3-axle trailer with an F450 diesel duallie.
When I grow up, I want to get an F550.

 

[JeffRad54]

Welcome to the forum!
A tandem axle trailer is fine as long as the axles are rated for the load. Check the GVW plate.
The factory specs out a tandem for the R-27.
Your boat and trailer weight will be close to 9k-10k all loaded up.

I have driven quite a bit through TN, and the hills and mountains will tax that Tundra. Stopping is a totally different discussion. If you are going short distances, not a big deal, but your gas mileage will be horrible. My buddy has a Tundra (same motor) and he gets 7-8 mpg towing a 24' camper (~5k lbs) - that's in flat Illinois corn country!

There is another thread going here on tow rig recommendations, it has some good advice in it.
Everyone has their own threshold for safety, your rig will be legal but real close to its limits.

My $.02

My R27 (2019, OB) weighed in at 11,000 lbs at a truck weigh station, empty except for 100 gallons of gas and factory equipment. The total weight, including the trailer was 13,000 lbs.
Your Tundra will not handle that weight.

The Factory Dry Weight of 7,000 lbs is a pure fantasy. I talked to the Factory about the discrepancy and they were unable to say what the True Delivered Weight is, or how they arrive at the advertised Dry Weight.
I suspect, given the 4,000 lb. difference, that the Factory Dry Weight is only the Hull and Topsides, less all furniture and equipment. I don't know this for a fact, but I can't think of anything else to account for the delta.

 

[Captain Nice]

If you want to be "legal", be sure to check the GCWR, likely around 16k.

CN

 

[knotflying]

3/4 ton. I would go diesel, but you could get by with the Dodge Ram Hemi. Lousy gas mileage towing and it will strain going up steep inclines. Never chintz with towing equipment. White knuckle driving is nerve racking and can be dangerous.

 

[scross]

Kent,
I am one of those folks that uses a Tundra 4x4 to tow my R25 Classic. I spent about $3,500 on it putting in heavy duty everything including TRD brakes to be sure it was good to tow. My R25 Classic consistently weighs in at 9,650 to 9,750 pounds for towing. That’s with the dinghy in the truck bed, no fresh water, holding tank pumped out and 15-20 gallons of diesel.
I have 40 years experience towing 30+ foot trailers and I would not be using the Tundra to tow the R25 without that under my belt.
I would never even consider towing a R27 with the Tundra. Not even towing it just across a parking lot.

PS: Recommend electric over hydraulic brakes for your trailer. With very rare exceptions, you can’t use a weight distribution system with aluminum trailers so keep that in mind. You want a trailer that is built to support 11,000 pounds minimum. The trailer itself will likely weigh in over 2,000 pounds. Expect the all up towing weight of your R27 on the trailer to be between 11,500 to 13,000 pounds depending on water, waste and fuel tank status. Having A/C and generator will add to that weight.

 

[bob daily]

Mr Kent, Is it legal? Is it safe? The fact that you ask indicated that you already know the answer.
Most tow rigs for a load that size are not what people use to drive on a day to day basis. Might you think of getting a rig ( 1-ton or bigger) for a dedicated tow vehicle, some nice used late models are available at a reasonable price (25% of new). Just my 2-cents. Bob

 

[pleeson]

I have to chime in too. If you are just towing locally to a nearby launch your Toyota might be adequate at sedate speeds. It is nowhere near safe on the open highway. My Cutwater 28 loaded up ready for cruising with just the stuff for two adults goes over the scales at +/- 13,000 lbs! The factory weight estimates are a fantasy, and I don't even have a generator or air conditioner. If you do get a new truck for towing, get a diesel with exhaust brake, and make it four wheel drive for the ramps. You will never regret it. In fact, if I had to do it over again I'd even get duallies on the rear axle for lateral stability on the highway. Look at the trailer GVW carefully with the fantasy factory numbers in mind. Your boat could weigh over 10,000 lbs cruise ready, and who goes to the trouble to empty it and drain the tanks before hauling it?

 

[Dale777]

kjoverbeck,

I replied a few years ago to a very similar inquiry to yours about trailer and truck. Although, I did not mention it in that post, I also think the R27 (in-board) would be safer with a tri-axle trailer. See note from years ago:

"For my previous 2012 R27, I had the Float-On all aluminum trailer used to tow the R27 behind my 2011 Silverado 2500 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel. Absolutely no problems with this arrangement - flat, hills, mountains or launching/retrieving on steep and slippery ramps. The weights involved were:

1. Trailer weight = 1,274 pounds
2. R27 weight = 9,276 pounds (1/2 fuel, empty waste tank, empty water tank, our stuff, RIB dinghy, A/C, GenSet.
Watch out for this number if you have a full fuel tank, non-empty waste tank and/or water tank and lots of your stuff aboard when trailering.

3. GVWR of the trailer = 11,274 pounds
4. Trailer + R27 = 10,550 pounds
5. GVWR - (Trailer + R27) = 724 pounds to spare (trailer safety margin)

6. Silverado 2500 4x4 diesel ball hitch rating = 13,000 pounds (VERIFY this hitch rating. Some dealers are not totally aware or completely frank about this number)
7. Trailer + R27 = 10,550 pounds
7. Hitch rating - (Trailer + R27) = 2,450 pounds (hitch safety margin)

Keep these numbers in mind so that you don't exceed the GVWR of your trailer or the hitch rating of your truck. Then, determine if your gas powered GMC 2500 will handle the load in the conditions where you will trailer - flat, hills, mountains, steep slippery ramps.

I can tell you that the consensus opinion on this forum to trailer an R27 is to use a 3/4 ton diesel truck, preferably a 4x4."

 

[KARL]

For what it's worth, I tow my 2015 R27 on a 2 axle Float On aluminum trailer with a Ford 250 Superduty with a 6.7 Liter turbo diesel. Yes, 4WD too. It performs beautifully and I would not use anything less.

 

[kjoverbeck]

Thanks for all the replies. I had no idea the boat weighed so much!. I will be buying a tri axel trailer. I guess if I need to go somewhere I will look into a transport co. to pull it for me. I recently bought a Winnebago View RV, now this boat and out of money to buy a big truck. Guess I will spend a lot of time on the Tennessee River.

 

[Godspeed]

I did a great deal of research on tow vehicles for our C30.
A couple of things;

All the boats weigh more than the listed or for that matter anticipated weights. Our C30 on our custom tri-axel trailer weighs over 16000 pounds combined with some fuel and no water or waste. This was verified by weighing truck, trailer and boat at a Cat scale. Then weighing just the truck (24000 pounds total).

Get a trailer with the best tires, electric over hydraulic brakes on all axels, and over build the trailer by at least 2500 pounds capacity.

Look into Ford F-250 and preferably F-350’s with V10 gas engines. I found a 2005 F-350 V10 with 60000 miles for just over $10000 dollars. I put in another $1200 dollars to change all fluids and brakes.
It tows the boat and trailer just fine. We have put about 1000 to 1500 miles on the rig the last 3 years. Fuel economy is NOT GREAT (7-9 mpg pulling the boat). However, given our investment in the truck vs a new or newer diesel we are happy to accept the fuel costs when towing.

So you can get into a tow rig for an affordable price. If you find you want to tow more in the future than consider the investment in a diesel tow vehicle.

 

[CaspersCruiser]

>> I have a Toyota Tundra with the big motor,388 hp, with factory equipped tow package. They say max towing is 10,500 #<<

1) To achieve that 10,500# tow rating almost certainly requires a weight distribution hitch. Most R27s have an aluminum trailer and most of those prohibit weight distribution hitches.

2) Horsepower is irrelevant. What pulls the trailer is torque. Most gas engines have half the torque of a diesel at twice the rpm.

3) This has relevance to your Tennessee residency. A few days ago, I was pulling my R27 on I-40 between Asheville and Knoxville in my 3/4 ton Silverado 2500HD. There is a particularly challenging stretch where there is a steep downhill followed by a 45mph curve at the bottom which leads to a long, straight, uphill section. It was gratifying to use the diesel engine braking going down the hill, take the curve at 45mph and then accelerate smartly up the long uphill straight away, passing all the struggling 18-wheelers. In a gas powered truck, I would have had to wheel brake down the hill and then dial up the rpm to make it up the hill.

If you’re going to tow often, consider a diesel-powered truck.

 

[kjoverbeck]

I am going to order a tri-axel aluminum trailer. I was going with hydraulic disk brakes but I see that many say to get electric disk brakes. I have been told that you don't want electric brakes on a boat trailer because of submersion in the water. I also thought that surge were more efficient because the harder you brake the more the trailer brakes work. so, just why do you like electric brakes?
Thanks, Kent

 

[scross]

In general there are three families of trailer brake systems.
1. Hydraulic surge brakes. Commonly called just surge brakes. No electricity involved. Good for small & light trailers.
2. Electric brakes. Good for travel trailers that don’t get brakes submerged. Can be drum or disk type systems. Not recommended for boats.
3. Electric over hydraulic (EOH) disk brakes. Not sure if they still make electric over hydraulic drum brakes but avoid the drums. The EOH disk is best for boat trailers.

You want electric over hydraulic disc brakes. Preferably with all stainless hardware.

PS: Here is a boatus.com article that explains how electric over hydraulic brakes work and their advantages. Even quotes Jim Favors, a tugnut.com regular.
https://www.boatus.com/magazine/trailer ... brakes.asp

 

[Katmat]

If you order a trailer make sure you get load range E tires!
The trailer I have came w/ load range D tires & they didn't last long.

 

[kjoverbeck]

Thanks. I'll go with the elec/hydraulic.

 

[CAPTCRUNCH]

Check the regulations of the state(s) where you're going to tow; some require brakes on all trailer wheels/axles above a specified weight capacity, and others don't. My dealer sold me a tandem trailer with brakes just on one axle. I added them to the second axle. It makes quite a difference to the stopping power.

 

[Bobby P.]

Just want to report on some recent reflections about safe towing.

We have an R31CB which weighs about 11,500 pounds, dry. I assume 13,000 when we are fully loaded. The trailer is about 1,850 pounds, so I round up to 15,000 pounds ( alsoI figure in all of the junk in the truck. I carry two spares, two 20 ton jacks, extra anchor lots of tools, etc etc. Now maybe up to between 500 and 1,000 pounds. Now we are up to possibly 16,000 pounds.

I have no regrets buying a Ram 3500 with cummins hd. The truck is tremendously powerful and weighs a wopping 11,400 pounds. That is a lot of meat for control, stopping, etc.

Here is how I made my decision. I kept inquiring to people if I should get a 2500 or 3500. My buddy, who drives a truck for a living, gave me the best advice. First, as soon as he knew what boat I was going to purchase, he said, "You need a one ton truck". I kept pressing him for details and finally he said, "Crawl under your 1500, then crawl under a 2500, and then crawl under a 3500". I looked under my 1500. Nice truck. Then I looked at the 2500 and 3500. Side by side, they look almost identical. When crawling underneath I could then see the difference. They are both beefy machines. However, the 1500 pound weight difference between the two seems to be all in frame (and may better brakes). All the metal on the 3500 is thicker and more robust. Consider driving down the road, pulling the boat and having to stop or swerve. The tires grab the road and the boat is attached to the frame of your truck, via the hitch. All the load transfers to the frame. The 3500 can handle that the best, lest flex, more rigidity and hence, better control. In the end, dually aside, I have the truck that can best handle the load. This helps me drive with confidence.


In short, the 1500 could pull the boat across the parking lot of my marina and launch and retrieve. A 2500 is within capacity. However, I love my 3500 for all the reasons stated above. I tow with confidence. If you already have a 2500 you might keep it and tow with it. If you are buying a new truck, get the 3500. BTW, I get over 21mpg and about 15-16 in the city (when not towing). And don'e ask, a gentleman does not discuss his towing MPGs (ha! it's about 8-9 MPGs).

Happy to share any other info.

Best,
Bobby