Tow Vehicle for C32 CB

[scross]

Or this which lets you read the actual tongue weight.
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch- ... S4-25.html

 

[bob daily]

Al,
I thought it was funny that the web site you referred to showed the hitch with the gage for tongue weight says that typical tongue weight should be about 10% to 15% of gross trailer weight! Bob

 

[scross]

Bob,
The reference to the EZLoader owners manual on page 13 says this:
“ This is called “tongue weight”. For example, if the GVW of the boat, gear and trailer is 1,500 lbs., the weight on the coupler should not be more than 150 lbs. – or the maximum rating of the hitch [whichever is less] –or be less than 75 pounds.”
So 150/1500=10% and 75/1500=5%. That puts the recommended tongue range at between 5% to 10%. What am I missing?

 

[bob daily]

Al, you are correct! All I'm saying is that it depends on which reference your looking at! As they are all between 5% to 15% depending on which information your looking at. So the average would be about 10% most people will only check tongue weight once and never bother again while they load there boat for that big vacation and that big empty space called the cockpit is great for all the stuff that will all add up to a lot of weight in the back of the boat that will take away from tongue weight, causing a dangerous situation! So if someone is at the lighter side and adds 200 lbs to the back of the boat, they will be a accident waiting to happen! Was not disagreeing with you, just stating my thoughts! Bob

 

[S. Todd]

We just had a custom triaxle trailer manufactured for our 2021 R29. I inquired of the owner of the trailer manufacturing company about tongue weight and he told me that the tongue weight they project for the set up with the triple axle trailer would be close to 5% of the boat and trailer combined weight. Once we take delivery I will put it on my tongue weight scale and confirm.
With regard to the discussion about airbags, they will reduce rear end sag but they will do very little to change the weight distribution between the front and rear axle, which is why they make weight distributing hitches. A weight distributing hitch will move some of the weight to the front axle thus improve handling in a set-up that has too light of a front end. The heavy diesel engine is unlikely to result in too light of front end to adversely effect handling if you have only 5% tongue weight.

 

[JSoup]

I’m the guy with the stock 2019 F250 long bed crew cab diesel (no air bags) and a partnership in a 2013 R31CB. We have towed from Montana to Portland, Portland to Newport, OR and back and just recently from Portand to San Diego and back. Generally speaking, the truck has been good. A notable exception is the trip to San Diego where we sent my boat partner and his wife off in my truck. The boat had a nearly full tank of diesel and the boat was too far aft on the trailer leading to too little tongue weight. They dealt with swaying problems for much of the trip, addressing it several ways including buying a weigh safe hitch, moving everything possible to the front of the boat and eventually putting the boat in the water in Stockton so they could move it forward on the trailer. The combination of things made it tolerable but I think having that much diesel was still a bit of a problem.

With the benefit of knowing all of this, before towing back up we ran the diesel down to 52 gals, moved everything forward and really concentrated on getting the boat far forward on the trailer. The combination of these things made for an easy tow with zero sway issues all the way back. We did sever a trailer brake line and didn’t even notice it until after my son driving in another vehicle saw it. Thankfully we were done with hills by then and almost home, but don’t know long long it was like that.

Given all that I am comfortable with my truck as a tow vehicle, but would always try to reduce weight especially by carrying less diesel. If I were buying a new truck, it will be a 1-Ton (F350 or 3500). I wouldn’t get a dually because I use it for work and parking a duality is a pain.

FWIW, they weighed the boat on the way down at a commercial scale and it was 17,680lbs on that scale!

Some final thoughts: We always get permits and have the necessary signage. We never stop at weigh stations having been told not to by the staff in one in Washington with our overwidth sailboat. California weigh station signage says “No Pickups”. When retuning to Oregon, there is an inspection station for invasive species at a weigh station. The operator started to flag me to get weighed, but then asked if it was personal (my truck has my company name on it) and waved me around with a “you’re good bro as long as it’s personal”.

Now, don’t ask about my son’s trailer problems towing his 150lb carbon sailboat....

 

[scross]

JSoup,
While it does seem obvious that towing less weight is probably easier and safer than towing with more weight, the steps to get to a lower towing weight are sometimes not so obvious.
We always try to tow with 1/4 tank or less of diesel. We do always tow with empty black water tank and only a few gallons of fresh water for boaterhoming on course. We mostly tow with the dinghy in the truck bed for a number of reasons.
Knowing the location of the three tanks is helpful too. In our boat the black water is aft, the fuel is center and fresh water forward. We can add or subtract tongue weight by adding fluids to the appropriate tanks even though adding fluids adds to total towed weight - a bad thing.
Coolers and other gear is in the truck rather than on the boat. This is done to the extent that we don’t exceed the weight limits of the truck itself of course.
Getting the boat as far forward on the trailer and against the winch post is important to get the tongue weight right. As you discovered the boat even a few inches aft can have a significant impact on handling while towing.
The other thing is making sure your trailer tires are properly inflated. Under inflated tires cause all kinds of problems from swaying to blowouts.
We expect to tow 3,000+ miles this season. I’m looking forward to seeing lots of new places with Our Journey in 2021!

 

[scross]

JSoup,
While it does seem obvious that towing less weight is probably easier and safer than towing with more weight, the steps to get to a lower towing weight are sometimes not so obvious.
We always try to tow with 1/4 tank or less of diesel. We do always tow with empty black water tank and only a few gallons of fresh water for boaterhoming on course. We mostly tow with the dinghy in the truck bed for a number of reasons.
Knowing the location of the three tanks is helpful too. In our boat the black water is aft, the fuel is center and fresh water forward. We can add or subtract tongue weight by adding fluids to the appropriate tanks even though adding fluids adds to total towed weight - a bad thing.
Coolers and other gear is in the truck rather than on the boat. This is done to the extent that we don’t exceed the weight limits of the truck itself of course.
Getting the boat as far forward on the trailer and against the winch post is important to get the tongue weight right. As you discovered the boat even a few inches aft can have a significant impact on handling while towing.
The other thing is making sure your trailer tires are properly inflated. Under inflated tires cause all kinds of problems from swaying to blowouts.
Last season we towed 3,200+ miles. We expect to tow 3,000+ miles this season. I’m looking forward to seeing lots of new places with Our Journey in 2021!

 

[joefish24]

JSoup, curious if the R31CB is about the same size and weight as the C32CB with a 12,000 lb weight and 10' beam, I'll have a look online.

 

[Levitation]

Having hauled my R25 from Mi to Fl annually for 8 years I would recommend about 900 pounds on the tongue. Yeah, yours is heavier but you have a 3rd axle, so as a farmer who hauls heavy stuff often, I see that as just about right.
You do not want a dually unless you are hauling bulldozers and such, up near the maximum weight allowed.
Enjoy the journey. We don't get a lot of years to do these things.

 

[serpa4]

I have a 2011 2500HD Duramax (extra cab/short bed). I have power to spare, get very consistent 10 to 10.2 mpg.
I have 850 lbs on my 16,020 lb C30, about 5%. It tows fine, but I get some proposing up and down. Wind and semitrucks don't move me. I think I need to get better shocks at 140,000 miles on the factory ones. Otherwise tows fine, rated to tow 17,000. I towed 2,500 miles "this year 2021". Plan to do another 8,800 or more miles.
My biggest concern.....! Tires are 2820 lbs each x 6 = 16,920 in tire capacity and I weigh 16,020 with 1/4 fuel and 1/2 water. If I top off fuel, I'll be over my tires by a significant amount! I gave my VIN to the trailer manufacture and they stated its a 14,000 lb carrying capacity and trailer weighs 2,500.
I did just install 6x3,500 lb tires and upgraded rims (225/75/15). Load range G, 14ply.

 

[dgiles]

I have a 2011 2500HD Duramax (extra cab/short bed). I have power to spare, get very consistent 10 to 10.2 mpg.
I have 850 lbs on my 16,020 lb C30, about 5%. It tows fine, but I get some proposing up and down. Wind and semitrucks don't move me. I think I need to get better shocks at 140,000 miles on the factory ones. Otherwise tows fine, rated to tow 17,000. I towed 2,500 miles "this year 2021". Plan to do another 8,800 or more miles.
My biggest concern.....! Tires are 2820 lbs each x 6 = 16,920 in tire capacity and I weigh 16,020 with 1/4 fuel and 1/2 water. If I top off fuel, I'll be over my tires by a significant amount! I gave my VIN to the trailer manufacture and they stated its a 14,000 lb carrying capacity and trailer weighs 2,500.
I did just install 6x3,500 lb tires and upgraded rims (225/75/15). Load range G, 14ply.

Maybe a bit of a shocker, but your truck is only rated for 13,000 lbs with a ball hitch. Your 17,000 number is max towing involving a gooseneck.

 

[serpa4]

I have a 2011 2500HD Duramax (extra cab/short bed). I have power to spare, get very consistent 10 to 10.2 mpg.
I have 850 lbs on my 16,020 lb C30, about 5%. It tows fine, but I get some proposing up and down. Wind and semitrucks don't move me. I think I need to get better shocks at 140,000 miles on the factory ones. Otherwise tows fine, rated to tow 17,000. I towed 2,500 miles "this year 2021". Plan to do another 8,800 or more miles.
My biggest concern.....! Tires are 2820 lbs each x 6 = 16,920 in tire capacity and I weigh 16,020 with 1/4 fuel and 1/2 water. If I top off fuel, I'll be over my tires by a significant amount! I gave my VIN to the trailer manufacture and they stated its a 14,000 lb carrying capacity and trailer weighs 2,500.
I did just install 6x3,500 lb tires and upgraded rims (225/75/15). Load range G, 14ply.

Maybe a bit of a shocker, but your truck is only rated for 13,000 lbs with a ball hitch. Your 17,000 number is max towing involving a gooseneck.

Nope, its 17,000. Got it straight from my owners manual based on my bed, powertrain, doors, passengers, etc.
Also, from "GMs" website for 2011, not 2nd/3rd party websites that say 13,000 / 17,000 as you stated:
2011 CHEVROLET SILVERADO HEAVY-DUTY TRUCKS AT A GLANCE
New Duramax 6.6L turbo diesel rated at 397 hp (296 kW) and 765 lb.-ft. of torque (1,037 Nm)
Towing capability of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)
Payload capability of 6,635 pounds (3,009 kg) supported by all-new frames and strong suspensions
Segment-best conventional trailer tow rating of 17,000 pounds (7711 kg)
Fifth-wheel trailer rating of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)

Exact quote from Chevy:
The maximum conventional (ball hitch) towing rating increases to a segment-best 17,000 pounds (7,727 kg).

 

[snydzy]

Nope, its 17,000. Got it straight from my owners manual based on my bed, powertrain, doors, passengers, etc.
Also, from "GMs" website for 2011, not 2nd/3rd party websites that say 13,000 / 17,000 as you stated:
2011 CHEVROLET SILVERADO HEAVY-DUTY TRUCKS AT A GLANCE
New Duramax 6.6L turbo diesel rated at 397 hp (296 kW) and 765 lb.-ft. of torque (1,037 Nm)
Towing capability of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)
Payload capability of 6,635 pounds (3,009 kg) supported by all-new frames and strong suspensions
Segment-best conventional trailer tow rating of 17,000 pounds (7711 kg)
Fifth-wheel trailer rating of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)

Exact quote from Chevy:
The maximum conventional (ball hitch) towing rating increases to a segment-best 17,000 pounds (7,727 kg).

A couple of things you should be aware of:
That tow rating is with a weight distribution hitch..
Those tow calculation are pre SAE J2807 that we’re adopted in 2013. Truck manufacturers were overstating towing capacities. The SAE standard, “Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating,” is known as J2807. Just because a truck can tow an impressive amount doesn’t mean its rating indicates how well that load is carried.

 

[hartyparty]

Bob,
It’s my understanding that the triple axle trailer Cutwater supplies with their boats is built by EZLoader. Haven’t confirmed that lately but think it’s still accurate.
Per page 13 in the EZLoader owners manual, they recommend a tongue weight of 5-10% of gross trailer+boat weight. They don’t give the percentages but use an example that equals those numbers.
http://www.ezloader.com/images/20160915 ... e6e07e.pdf

LoadRite says,"Improper tongue weight on the tow vehicle hitch ball can cause loss of control of the tow vehicle and result in serious injury, property damage, or even death. Depending upon trailer model, proper tongue weight should be adjusted to 5% to 7% of GVWR when fully loaded."

And from Venture Trailers, "A minimum of 5% tongue weight and a maximum 10% tongue weight of the trailer GVWR must be positioned over the hitch ball. The Trailer tongue should be parallel to the ground. Too much weight can cause premature brake actuation and loss of control of the towing vehicle. To little tongue weight can cause the trailer to fishtail, resulting in loss of control of the tow vehicle and trailer (total trailer weight GVWR includes weight of the trailer plus load)."

Tuff trailers, who built my trailer recommends 6-9% of the gross weight and I’m towing consistently at near 7% without any issues.

Rocket International recommends between 10-15% of GVW. http://www.rockettrailers.com/downloads ... Manual.pdf Are there no standards for this?

 

[SKI3PO]

You might consider adding airbags to your rear suspension. It will help level the truck out and keep the front tires in good contact with road. Adds a measure of stability and safety.

Zero reason to add airbags to a Diesel truck with only max 1500 lbs on the hitch. Just one more thing to maintain and repair.

I respectfully disagree. There’s the load rating numbers and then there is the actual experience of towing. My airbags dramatically improve the ride comfort towing my R29. It’s literally night and day different. In Alaska where we have a lot of frost heaves the airbags minimize the teeter totter effect that you get rolling over dips and bumps. My Air Ride bags have a lifetime warranty and to date have required zero maintenance beyond about 2 hours for installation. If your truck is a daily drive, the added benefit is the ability to back off the stiffness when you aren’t towing.

 

[dgiles]

I have a 2011 2500HD Duramax (extra cab/short bed). I have power to spare, get very consistent 10 to 10.2 mpg.
I have 850 lbs on my 16,020 lb C30, about 5%. It tows fine, but I get some proposing up and down. Wind and semitrucks don't move me. I think I need to get better shocks at 140,000 miles on the factory ones. Otherwise tows fine, rated to tow 17,000. I towed 2,500 miles "this year 2021". Plan to do another 8,800 or more miles.
My biggest concern.....! Tires are 2820 lbs each x 6 = 16,920 in tire capacity and I weigh 16,020 with 1/4 fuel and 1/2 water. If I top off fuel, I'll be over my tires by a significant amount! I gave my VIN to the trailer manufacture and they stated its a 14,000 lb carrying capacity and trailer weighs 2,500.
I did just install 6x3,500 lb tires and upgraded rims (225/75/15). Load range G, 14ply.

Maybe a bit of a shocker, but your truck is only rated for 13,000 lbs with a ball hitch. Your 17,000 number is max towing involving a gooseneck.

Nope, its 17,000. Got it straight from my owners manual based on my bed, powertrain, doors, passengers, etc.
Also, from "GMs" website for 2011, not 2nd/3rd party websites that say 13,000 / 17,000 as you stated:
2011 CHEVROLET SILVERADO HEAVY-DUTY TRUCKS AT A GLANCE
New Duramax 6.6L turbo diesel rated at 397 hp (296 kW) and 765 lb.-ft. of torque (1,037 Nm)
Towing capability of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)
Payload capability of 6,635 pounds (3,009 kg) supported by all-new frames and strong suspensions
Segment-best conventional trailer tow rating of 17,000 pounds (7711 kg)
Fifth-wheel trailer rating of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)

Exact quote from Chevy:
The maximum conventional (ball hitch) towing rating increases to a segment-best 17,000 pounds (7,727 kg).

Well. pretty sure you are wrong. Your 2011 Diesel supplement manual is pretty much the same as my 2016 diesel supplement manual and if you see the little supercript in the corner of where it shows 17,200lbs, it is a number "1". Go to the end of the list and it shows that "trailer rating is limited to 13000lbs with a ball hitch."
From 2020 and newer, yes the ratings are higher but not pre-2020. I would reread your manual.

 

[dgiles]

Nope, its 17,000. Got it straight from my owners manual based on my bed, powertrain, doors, passengers, etc.
Also, from "GMs" website for 2011, not 2nd/3rd party websites that say 13,000 / 17,000 as you stated:
2011 CHEVROLET SILVERADO HEAVY-DUTY TRUCKS AT A GLANCE
New Duramax 6.6L turbo diesel rated at 397 hp (296 kW) and 765 lb.-ft. of torque (1,037 Nm)
Towing capability of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)
Payload capability of 6,635 pounds (3,009 kg) supported by all-new frames and strong suspensions
Segment-best conventional trailer tow rating of 17,000 pounds (7711 kg)
Fifth-wheel trailer rating of 21,700 pounds (9,843 kg)

Exact quote from Chevy:
The maximum conventional (ball hitch) towing rating increases to a segment-best 17,000 pounds (7,727 kg).

A couple of things you should be aware of:
That tow rating is with a weight distribution hitch..
Those tow calculation are pre SAE J2807 that we’re adopted in 2013. Truck manufacturers were overstating towing capacities. The SAE standard, “Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating,” is known as J2807. Just because a truck can tow an impressive amount doesn’t mean its rating indicates how well that load is carried.

Weight distributing hitches ratings do not apply to HD trucks, at least in 2015 and newer Chev trucks. Carrying capacity and tow rating doesn't change between the two. When was the last time you ever saw a HD truck with a weight distributing hitch?