Towing our R-29 out West!

Stuart,
We had planned to do just as you suggest and weigh Karma once we got her on the trailer. We did this with Solitude just so we would know what she weighed also. We did it "empty" and then once we had her set to cruise. Difference of 1,000 lbs!

We did order the EZ Loader Aluminum Trailer. The weight cert that I received for it from the factory shows a weight of 2400 lb. I will weigh it empty to verify. (In the event I ever decide to register it in Colorado, I will need that anyways)

Yes, the Dodge is a great truck. Our's pulled Solitude with no issues. Before we had it, Maureens dad had it. He towed a 40 foot flat bed trailer with antique trucks loaded on it.
 
It is good to here that EZ loader is getting there weight down. The first few aluminum ones they build just under a year ago still had a lot of steel in them in the support areas and the weight was still high. It sounds like they are getting smarter.
Keep me posted on how all the weights come out.
Happy trailering!
Stu
 
Well, we rolled our new EZ-Loader aluminum trailer across the truck scale to find out what it truly weighs empty. I pulled the truck far enough off the scale so I could drop the front support of the trailer on the scale thus leaving all the weight of the trailer on the scale. The weight came out at 2,160#. With the 9,200# of Karma sitting on the trailer the weight should go to 11,300. Another 1,000# of dry stuff, fuel, water...... etc and we should be sitting at 12,300. We will see..... Once she is loaded, we will repeat the weigh process again.
 
That's great news! It is good to see that EZ loader has brought there weight down quite a bit.
The 12,300lbs is around what I was originally thinking as a total max weight when we weighed Spirit of Gratitude. I was truly thinking around 11,500lbs but thought it could be a bit more.
Boy was I surprised when we came in at 13,920lbs with trailer, Trailer being 1800lbs made our boat coming out to 12,120lbs.
I had 15gal of fuel on board(105lbs) Dinghy (70lbs) My AGM batteries weighed 200lbs over factory batteries. misc stuff like food,suitcase and bedding(150lbs) and bigger anchor and 100' of chain (150lbs over factory set up) solar panels (70lbs)
Flying airplanes trained me to be very aware of all the weight that was being loaded on to my plane and of course that kind thinking spills over to my boats.

So all this comes out to 745lbs of extra stuff on board. This puts the boat at 11,375lbs. I am still over the 9,250lbs factory weight by 2,125lbs
I am very interested in what your numbers are. I would love nothing more then to find out that the certified flying J scale i weight on was totally wrong...... And I weigh less then the 13,920lbs.. But I don't think so.

Keep me posted!

Stu
 
Thanks to Stuart for the information on the "Permit Company" that will apply and email your wide load permits to you.

Their toll free number is: 866-943-3356
Their fees are $30.00 plus the cost of the permit. There is also a 4.8% processing fee. This comes out to about $50.00 for a seven day permit in California.

In order to pull you a permit though they will need the following information:
Your name, address, telephone number
Your drivers license number

Address you will depart from
Address of final destination
The exact route you will take

The make and model of your tow vehicle
The make and model of the boat
The make and model of the trailer

The VIN from the truck and trailer
The HIN from the boat
The plate number off of the trailer
The plate number off of the truck

The length of the truck
The length of the trailer
The length of just the boat
The width of the boat
The total length of the truck and trailer
The distance between the rear axle and the hitch
The total height of the load
The weight of the truck
The weight of the boat and trailer
The total weight of the combined load

If anyone is looking to pull permits, I have spread sheet where you simply fill this information in and email it to the Permit Company. The good news is, once they build your profile, you do not need to go through all of this again. You would simply verify that none of the information has changed and give them your new travel dates and routes.

If you would like a copy of the spread sheet, send me a PM with your email address and I will email it to you.

Boy, the first time towing an R-29 is a lot of work....... Permits, flags, banners, new hitch etc...... but, after the first time, it will get easier (I hope). Oh, and don't forget, you will need to change out the hitch that came standard on your truck. Most of them are only rated at 10,000#. While they will "work", if you were to have an accident, good luck! We changed ours out to a hitch rated at 20,000# just to be safe. Total cost of the hitch, ball, and receiver, $500.00. Lot cheaper than a new boat in the event of an accident.......
 
David,
Have you had a chance to weigh the whole package yet?
 
Not yet, next week on the way north I will. Right now Karma is parked at Svensens in Alameda until I get back next week. At my first fuel stop, I will roll her across the scale. She will have all of our gear on board. The only thing that will not be on board is fuel and water.
 
Make sure you disconnect the truck from the trailer when you weigh,
What do you think your personal gear weighs?
 
I will weigh just the boat and trailer by dropping the tongue on the scale.

When we were hauling all of the our gear home in the back of the truck, we weighed the truck with the gear and then the empty truck (full tank of fuel both times). The difference was a 1000#! Now, we have not put all that back onto Karma. I would estimate that we will have 800# of gear on board now. No water, 25 gallons of fuel.

Like I have said in the past, I think everyone should take everything off of their boat once a year. Review what you have used and have not used. Take off the stuff you have not used.
 
We had our new hitch installed on our truck today. It was amazing the size difference in the steel used to construct it. The new hitch is rated to 20,000# compared to the standard equipment that was rated at 10,000#.

Along with the new hitch, I picked up Karma's new kayaks and installed them on her roof. Tomorrow, we leave for Lake Shasta! I figure it will take us about five hours to make the trek from Alameda to Bridge Bay Marina on Lake Shasta.

I will add the pictures of Karma with her new kayaks on our website.

I have also updated the launch ramp section on our website. We will continue to update it as we launch Karma at various locations.
 
Well, today was our first day for towing Karma any distance. I headed out of Alameda at 7:30 am. Three and a half hours later than I had planned. It seems that getting the permits were just a little more bothersome than I thought it would be. I submitted all of the information over a week ago. After a half dozen calls this morning, finally, they showed up on my email. For those of you that have said is it really necessary? I was stopped twice today and had to show the permit. Once was at the toll both for the Benicia Bridge, the other was a commercial enforcement officer with the CHP.

I rolled the truck and the trailer onto a scale outside of Redding. Total weight was 23,500 pounds. Once I got that weight done, I pulled the truck off of the scale and weighed just the boat and trailer. I dropped the tongue onto the scale to place all of the weight on the scale.

The weight of Karma and the trailer came in at 15,040 pounds! That means Karma’s weight is just under 13,000 pounds since the trailer along came in at 2,100 pounds! Sure glad I had that extra heavy duty hitch installed!
Karma did well just following right along behind the truck. I kept my speed at 55 to 58 miles per hour. No sense in rushing when you have 15,000 pound tailgating you! My average fuel consumption was 10 MPG. This is the same that we got when towing Solitude. (she was 5,000 lighter)

There was 25 gallons of fuel aboard. No waste. No water. 1,000 pounds of gear.

The launch at Bridge Bay Marina went off without a hitch. The ramp was plenty steep enough so she came off very easily. She drew quite a crowd when I pulled over to the fuel dock to fill the water tank. People were amazed at how good looking she was. I was amazed with the number of people that asked what she cost. Not a question I would ask……

Maureen fly’s in tomorrow night. I will pick her up and then it is a beautiful week of cruising Lake Shasta. The weather is predicted to be sunny and in the mid ninety’s all week! A week from Friday, we will pull her out of the water and continue our journey north! Watch for posts on our website as well as here to our continued adventure on Lake Shasta!
 
Welcome to the R-29 towing club David!
I am surprised that you had trouble getting your permits. I have pulled many and they always came with 24hrs via email. I would like to think that your experience was a fluke.
I am glad you had your permits being pulled over and all. Like I always said, they cost very little and they are worth getting. Hell, we spend more on a night out at a nice restaurant.

You are right at what I thought you would be at on boat and trailer weight. I know you have Karma loaded more then Spirit of Gratitude, and your trailer is 300lbs heavier . I am sure you were a bit surprised.
I just think it is good that people know that the factory numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. When it comes to towing such a boat then it is good not to be under any illusions. Better to know the real numbers.
Still many 5th wheels are at or above 15,000lbs and there are more of them on the road then R-29's.

Glad you had a good trip and you are back in your favorite cruising area. We are looking at Sea of Cortez,Florida keys, or maybe back in southern Cal for this next fall and winter. Lots of choices! Great to have a trailerable yacht.

Stuart
 
Stuart,
It is nice to be able to have the flexibility to move Karma to the next location with just a little planning. Not quite as easy as the R-25 or R-27. Now you have to plan for permits...... Not going to attempt that after yesterday.

While both of the gentlemen were very friendly and courteus, I am sure it would have been a little different if I did not have the permits......

Shasta is gorgeous this year. Full to the brim! Fishing must be good as there are a number of boats out fishing this morning. We will give it a try tomorrow. The water is still a bit chilly with all of the snow melt still. Can't stay in long.
 
David and Stuart,

This is a great thread. We are preparing to get started pulling Wolf Pack in the near future (Shasta is high on our list also).

I understand all you both do is just call the special number with all that info and they email permits. However, does either of you know what the requirements are for towing these loads drivers license-wise? I have been told that some states require a special endorsement on their driver licenses (Nevada specifically requires a 'J' endorsement for loads over 15,000#). My driver license is in Washington state.

Maybe one of you can elaborate on what your experience is in this regard?

David, for pulling Wolf Pack with our 3/4 ton Ford F250 (7.3 diesel), we have had a SuperHitch installed to replace the factory hitch and the receiver and ball are both rated over 15,000 as well. And, just as Stuart did, we also had the airbags installed.

We Tugnuts really appreciate you both sharing your experience and knowledge with us in these threads.

Gene Redmon
Wolf Pack
 
Hi Gene,
I have heard a few people talk about these concerns. I made a call to Cory the guy that hulls all the Rangers and cutwaters all over the U.S. for Fluid motion. He also has many drivers working for him. He said that this is not a issue as far as he in concerned. It would mean that just about everyone that is towing a fifth wheel out there is going to need a special license.
For what it is worth, I have my boat docs that say it weighs 9250lbs. Then I have paperwork that shows my trailer at 1800lbs. Now we both know that our load are more then that when you add those two numbers up. I keep that paperwork with me when towing.

I am one to say that this is a non issue to me. The biggest reason being what the pro tells me that does this everyday, all day long. He has never heard of such a thing.

So at the end of the day the info above and $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee.

Hope this helps,
Stuart

P.S. I have never had a problem getting my permits from the permit co. I would like to think that the problem David had was a fluke. The permit co deals with professional drivers all the time so when someone like us calls it can be a little intimidating when they are asking for your routes.
David is better at me about posting in detail. In one of his post he lays out all what you need to have before you make the call. I also have a website that gives me bridge clearances under 14' in whatever state I am going through. I will have to look that up. I always make sure that the route I have chosen does not have any bridges under 14'
That could make for a bad day!
 
Yes, the factory weights are given out with a wink and a nod...
 
While Stuart is absoultely correct in regards to towing your tug, there are other issues that we found along the way the can make you stop and wonder.....

Karma followed behind us without any issues what so ever. Wherever I went, she followed......

Now, the various states that we went through.... that is a totally different story. We left California with our oversize load banners posted on the front of the truck and the stern of Karma (remember, I had the benefit of talking to two of California's finest while heading to Lake Shasta with no issues).

When we rolled into Oregon, we had to go through the scales due to the "Zebra Mussel Inspection". As I attempted to bypass the scale and go right to the inspection, the little gnome inside ran out, gave me the look and indicated I must roll across the scale. He stopped us to review our permit and then proceeded to tell us the banners we had (Oversize Load) were not acceptable in Oregon. We need banners that measured a minimum of 72 inches and read "Wide Load". We had to drop Karma at the scales and head to the nearest truck stop to purchase the "proper" banners. Once all this was done, we hit the road again.....

Then, we rolled into Washington. As I approached the first scale, I watched the very large travel trailer in front of me to see if he pulled in. Bingo! He rolled right by! As I neared the scale though, signs next to the highway flashed on saying, Trucks Must Stop at Scales. Into the scales we went.....

There, we were informed that we had the wrong banners in place, we needed banners that read "Oversize Load"..... Imagine that, I just happen to have two of those in the back of the truck.... He also pointed out that I did not have my flags marking the "widest point" of the load! The "inspector instructed us to pull over in the parking lot, correct the issues and then roll over the scales again.... All I could imagine was next he was going to ask me to see my CDL license...... Thankfully he did not.

Now, it was already six thrity and we still had at least three more hours of driving to do. We decided that we had had enough fun for one day so we chose instead to pull into an RV Park and spend the night. We were thankful when we saw that they put us on the far side of the park away from the highway. That lasted, oh I would say three minutes or so, until the first train roared by not more than a hundred feet away.... blasting its horn of course.... What are we to do, break out a bottle of wine of course and have a good laugh. In reality, the trains were not to bad. After ten we did not hear but two all night long.

We finished hauling Karma up to Alki on Saturday morning. She launched like a dream. I went off and parked the trailer at the storage, and then it was off to Winslow Wharf. Through the fog of course....

We made it with no issues. Got Karma all secured in her new home. Then checked out town.

I would not discourage anyone from towing their R-29. Learn from your experiences as you go and roll with the punches!
 
David,
I am not sure where you got your banners but on mine, they say oversize load on one side and wide load on the other.
I am not sure of what the Oregon laws are but I think the guy was wrong. I am going to contact the professional Ranger boat hauler and ask him what the Oregon rules are. I will post when I know.

I put red flags on the rail at the helm door and then again on the opposite rail on the port side. I never run a banner on the front of my truck because I do not want to cover my front grill. It will effect my cooling. I keep the banner with me in case I am ever asked. Then I can play stupid and put it on.

I am not sure why but I have towed through WA,OR,ID,NV,CA,CO,NM,AZ and never had any law give me a second look. The only thing I can think of is that before I ever set out to make a trip I stop,and take a moment to give thanks for a wonderful,successful ,event free trip and know that is is already so. Then I carry on with not a doubt in my mind that I will create such a trip.
Ok, I know that gets a little woo woo for some but it is just part of what works for me. It is truly what I do for everything in life. Kinda strange for a guy that is in no way religious, don't you think?
 
The gentleman (using that term loosly) pointed out right on the permit where the "Wide Load" banner was required. The banner on the front of the truck actually covers the bumper not the grill. We will be posting pictures on our website this week.

Yes, I am not sure why they wanted to chat with us along the way..... maybe it was just a good looking boat... who knows!

What was surprising though was the ease in which we rolled through California. Yes we had to show the permits twice but, both times it was a very simple process with a thank you from the CHP at the end. Not what I would have expected out of a state that has more state laws than any other in the nation....... (I can "dog" California since I spent 30% of my life there......)

All in all though, I would not discourage anyone from towing their R-29. We have made note of what we need to do for each state and will comply as we roll in. It actually became quite comimical at the end.

We will be checking into what are the requirements for getting a CDL. What we have read is most states require these once you exceed 25,000 GVW. We were at 25,040 with no fuel or water on board.
 
Ok just got the poop from the pro driver that goes through the state OREGON and all states all the time.

He uses oversize nationwide. Ether one will work in Oregon he said. David you found the one guy that needed to be a jerk. But having the duel signs would have solved that issue.
As far as needing a CDL. ONLY IF YOU ARE A COMMERCIAL DRIVER FOR HIRE AND YOU ARE USING A ONE TON DUALLY OR BIGGER TO TOW WITH. RECREATIONAL USE IS EXEMPT! Even if you are using a one ton dually.
 
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