Tugnut #1

TylerFromEverett":1oytibtq said:
Ranger’s customer service and quality speaks for itself. This, in my opinion, is a bad policy. Let people speak their mind and watch your 1000s if raving fans come to your defense with their own testimonies. That’s what seems to happen. It feels real, and sincere. If people can only say nice things here because the company censors everything else, it’s harder to trust the nice things. This hurts the trust you’ve built with us.
Click to expand...

We all appreciate this more than ever. We have always kept posts active whether they were good or bad. We have and will continue to encourage our owners to let us know when we have issues, things we can work on and areas we can improve. There is nothing censored about this forum and never will be unless we have the repeat offenders that are seeking their own agenda. This is meant to be a place of learning and teaching for our owners and the factory. It will not be and was never created to be a place of anyone's personal agenda or to blackmail the factory into doing things because they are not happy with the response they received. This forum was intended to be a fun place where people can go to share their next adventure, the cruises they plan to do with an open invite for others to join, the modifications they have done to their boat, a place where our customers can reach the factory for advice or direction or a place where we can gather information about past experiences.

I have been with Jeff from the early days and I can tell you that over the many years of doing this, I can count on one hand the amount of posts we have removed. Lets go back to the old days of "pick up the phone and call" if you have an issue that needs to be resolved.

We are very much looking forward to a new year as I am sure everyone is and look forward to seeing everyone on the docks!
 
SKI3PO":skjysr7t said:
Thank you Jeff! There's lot's of places on the internet to rant and rave so let's preserve this little corner to be cordial and learn. Tugnuts.com is so valuable as a crowd sourced guide for everything Ranger Tugs. I have been without a boat this summer after selling our beloved R27c. Since then I have spent hours on Tugnuts.com learning and asking questions in anticipation of our new R29CB to be delivered this winter. Hopefully we can meet Tugnut #1 when our new boat is complete and you are cordially invited to the first ever Alaska Tugnut Rendezvous next summer.
Click to expand...


If you do not get to meet Tugnut #1, you will definitely get to meet Tugnut #5 (or so). Have the downrigger and crab pots ready because I am on my way!
 
Andrew Custis":2tfwmsn8 said:
TylerFromEverett":2tfwmsn8 said:
Ranger’s customer service and quality speaks for itself. This, in my opinion, is a bad policy. Let people speak their mind and watch your 1000s if raving fans come to your defense with their own testimonies. That’s what seems to happen. It feels real, and sincere. If people can only say nice things here because the company censors everything else, it’s harder to trust the nice things. This hurts the trust you’ve built with us.
Click to expand...

We all appreciate this more than ever. We have always kept posts active whether they were good or bad. We have and will continue to encourage our owners to let us know when we have issues, things we can work on and areas we can improve. There is nothing censored about this forum and never will be unless we have the repeat offenders that are seeking their own agenda. This is meant to be a place of learning and teaching for our owners and the factory. It will not be and was never created to be a place of anyone's personal agenda or to blackmail the factory into doing things because they are not happy with the response they received. This forum was intended to be a fun place where people can go to share their next adventure, the cruises they plan to do with an open invite for others to join, the modifications they have done to their boat, a place where our customers can reach the factory for advice or direction or a place where we can gather information about past experiences.

I have been with Jeff from the early days and I can tell you that over the many years of doing this, I can count on one hand the amount of posts we have removed. Lets go back to the old days of "pick up the phone and call" if you have an issue that needs to be resolved.

We are very much looking forward to a new year as I am sure everyone is and look forward to seeing everyone on the docks!
Click to expand...

I mean it when I say that Fluid Motion has given me better customer service than any company I’ve ever worked with.
 
I never interpreted the Jeff's orig post as being one of potential censorship if it's not a glowing review of RT/CW... On the contrary, we all - manufacturers included - benefit from constructive criticism when shared in a public forum or one-on-one, as long as it's done tastefully and respectfully. I believe that is what Jeff is getting at.

Andrew, you said it best: "It will not be and was never created to be a place of anyone's personal agenda or to blackmail the factory into doing things because they are not happy with the response they received."

I own a business that thrives on good reviews (Yelp, Google, etc.). We pride ourselves on our customer satisfaction. It's why we go into work every day. 99.5% of our customers are salt-of-the-earth, wonderful people that share their stories with others, and we are so grateful for them! There are, however, the .5% (or less, to be honest) that have actually told us "if you don't do this for free, I'll write bad reviews on every site I can" (true story... these words actually came out of someone's mouth).

If my company had a version of TugNuts for my customers to share their stories, both good and bad... You better bet I would censure the unruly, unrealistic people that are only posting negative reviews or comments for their own personal gain. I would never, however, censure people that simply weren't happy with a product or service of which I provided. We all have negative reviews. Although I would love to believe I'm perfect... we make mistakes. It's how we handle those mistakes that sets us apart.

Maybe I'm wrong... but these unruly, unrealistic people are the ones that I believe Jeff is talking about. If I ever thought Tugnuts removed all posts but the most glowing, positive comments, I would cease to be a member. That thought is unrealistic, however, and I would bet that this is not what Tugnuts #1-5 meant.
 
Great post Jeff. Seeing other forums go down the tubes with negativity supports your desire for that not to happen here. In my opinion it is all about the wording. Anyone can take the same issue and word it in a helpful way. Someone else can take the same issue and turn it negative or vindictive. I think you are simply saying that negative posts that in no way are helpful or in line with the purpose of the forum will not be permitted. Does not mean you cannot make a point or bring up a helpful issue. Removal or closing down posts is up to the moderator as it should be. If any one desires to not follow the rules they always have the ability to open their own forum. Great forum. I would hate to see it any other way.
 
Very well said...Tugnuts has always been a site that I have gone to for information from other Cutwater owners to have a better understanding of my cutwater and even at times, able to help others. In addition, if needed, I have always been able to reach Cutwater Representatives to get a quick, reliable response when I had Cutwater questions. Most recently, we called Cutwater with questions on a new "used" to us C24 and the phone was answered by Andrew Custis, General Manager. Andrew not only answered our questions but also gave us additional advice. You are exactly right, when you have a question or concern, call Cutwater and they will be 100% responsive.
 
Jeff,
I also want to thank you and the Ranger crew for all the support you have given us over the two years we have been tug owners.

Starting with the pre-delivery visit to the factory, where we inspected our boat just before final assembly and saw the excellent quality of the workmanship and materials - and then the delivery in Des Moines with several days of detailed briefings and learning how to manouver our new R31-S, my many questions have been answered quickly.

Sure, there have been “speedbumps” on the way but we are very fortunate to have our floating home away from home in these days of isolation, and being members of this amazing group of Tug Nuts is a great way to ameliorate this.
 
Jeff

Thanks so much for your leadership and setting a tone of civility. I have been in shock with the persistent troll type of activity over the last couple months on Tugnuts and will be happy to see it tamped down and hopefully find a home on a different URL.
 
I spent many hours reading Tugnuts posts before we decided to order our 2015 R25SC. Because there are very few of them in Central Indiana, this forum was the source I used for owners' opinions of the boats and the company behind them. Since then we have enjoyed the use of our Tug during our summer vacations for 6 seasons, enjoyed the friendship of other owners we have met at 4 Great Lakes rendezvous and continued to follow the Tugnuts Forum regularly. Some folks have posted such helpful and insightful comments on a regular basis that I almost feel we are friends even though I have never met them in person. A few weeks ago we decided to put out beloved R25SC up for sale and order a 2021 R29S (which we understand is currently being built). This forum was again instrumental in making the decision. Thus, I echo the thanks of others to all those responsible for the existence and maintenance of this forum and to all those willing to share constructive advice to get the most positive experiences out of our boat ownership and operations.
 
As others have said, I didn’t perceive Jeff’s post as telegraphing a shift into forum censorship.

This forum is owned and sponsored by Fluid Motion. They have every right to moderate or censor as they see fit to further their business goals. However, in my four years of participation, I have seen almost no instance of posts being removed. A few times, some posters have appeared to have an axe to grind. Amazingly, at times, those posts have been addressed by members of senior management on the forum, an exceedingly rare action by a business.

The forum membership also deserves a pat on the back. The overwhelming majority of posts address the topic of the thread and, thankfully, posts are free of any hint of political discourse that poisons so many other forums.

I have gained A LOT of critical information about the maintenance and operation of my Ranger Tug R27 from this forum. Those who have or are thinking about abandoning the Tugnuts forum because of Jeff’s post are really just hurting themselves.
 
Tugnuts.com was a part of the reason I chose a Cutwater. I really value being able to share information with a RT/CW affinity group and it's solved or helped with a lot of my boating challenges. Not everything I post is entirely positive, however, I would never want to be part of an unmoderated forum with rants, threats and especially personal attacks. My local newspaper has an excellent set of published guidelines and they actively monitor and bounce unruly posts. Recently, they introduced a new algorithm based tool that looks at language and guesses if you are making a valid point or a nasty personal attack. In the later case, you will get warned that it *may* be deleted. While it doesn't stop you from posting anything, you may read what you wrote and decide it's not the best way to say it. Andrew and others have made it clear that if you want to solve serious issues, make direct personal contact. This forum is a 'happy place' for most of us.
 
Thank you for the input! You are correct. We have deleted less than a handful of posts in the last 13 years and we have no intention of changing that. There are many members, guests and owners (including myself) that have benefitted from the information that is posted on this site. We love the feedback and build a better boat today as a result. Thanks to you! If you have a question or concern regarding our intentions, my personal email and cell phone are listed below. Feel free to call me to discuss. Meanwhile, If you do need help with your boat, please give us a call at the factory (253) 839-5213 or email us at factoryguy@rangertugs.com We are here to help!

Ranger Jeff
 
I read the opening post her with considerable pleasure (and some righteous pride), only on reflection realizing that I may have contributed in some way to diminishing the enjoyment of others by engaging in some idle speculation on the theoretical legalities of a particular matter without pausing to consider that my fellow Tugnuts probably do not share my own appetite for, or comfort with, such hyperbolic discourse. I dearly hope that I did not discourage any from finding here the enjoyment that the Ranger team works so diligently to provide. I'll endeavor in the future to keep the ethos of the forum at the front of my mind when posting.
 
Jeff and Andrew,
Thanks for you and FM for keeping this forum going. In the past 6 years I have learned a heck of a lot about my boat from the posts of others. That information has been invaluable to our enjoyment of our RT-25 Classic. The support we have received from Andrew and team with specific problems to our way past warranty boat has been exceptional. I have never been disappointed with our purchase of a FM product.
Many of the post over the past 6 years have focused on problems with the specific products, manufactured by 3rd parties, that FM selected to be included on their boats. Take for example the ECU in the Cummings Mercruiser engines causing a hard start issue. Or Garmins bad batch of autopilot hydraulic pumps. Or the bad upholstery problem. Well, you probably get my point. Those are really not a FM caused problem. FM in good faith selected products from reputable vendors and sometimes those products had issues. FM has done well to address those issue, especially when they showed up well after the warranty period, but I’d never blame FM for them.
The benefit to FM of this forum, as you have alluded, is that we RT/CW owners act as a free, long term, unpaid, QA team to help you identify design and build issues that may need attention with your current production. Like wiring issues that don’t meet acceptable standards and literally vary from boat to boat of the same vintage and model. Or design issues that make it nearly impossible to service components. Those are the type of issues that I hope you are taking as constructive feedback to improve the quality of the product going forward.
In that way, this forum helps us owners understand and deal with component and design issues and helps FM make a better product for new owners.
Just my 2 cents.
 
I love this forum and being a fairly new owner of a Tug find it very helpful. I am also a Global Moderator on a very large forum and these problems also happen and thus we had to set up rules to live by. Having these rules we are able to warn members and if they continue unfortunately ban members. Hopefully you never have to come to that but certain topics that are not related to the forum can be very divisive. Good luck and keep up the good work.
 
Jeff I just want to thank all who contribute to this site. I will be a Ranger Tug owner by the end of next week. I found the boat I’m buying on this site. I have don’t a lot of research before my purchase and asked questions. The form has been so helpful in my decision to buy a Ranger Tug 29.
 
Thanks, Jeff. This needed to be said, and I agree with your position.

I've owned my R-25 for just about 14 years now. It is an amazing boat and this has been an amazing forum. I've participated in it a lot, and hopefully helped a few people over the years. This is not a place for excessive complaining. It's a place to learn from your fellow Ranger and Cutwater owners. Yes, sometimes there are issues, there always are with boats, but in my experience everyone working together, communicating in a positive way, expressing the joys of owning a Tug or Cutwater, and solving problems together is just a better way to work and live.
 
Jeff Messmer":zl1cl75n said:
Thanks Bob! We are not going to remove any of the posts that are currently on the forum. Our Tugnuts Moderator, Bruce, will follow up with some guidelines with an emphasis on being nice!
Click to expand...
Should we still expect to see guidelines, or is the topic cooling down on a back burner?
 
Jeff Messmer, Tugnut #1, said I’d be providing guidelines for this forum as we continue on as a community of boaters with a shared appreciation for our boats, boating, and fellow boaters.

I started as volunteer moderator on Nov 22, 2008 as member #6. Andrew beat me by a day and is actually member #4. By the end of November we had 120 members. At the time Ranger Tugs had three models in production and/or in the water.

Today there are 6,134 members and between Ranger Tugs and Cutwater Boats Fluid Motion has more than 2 dozen models in production and/or on the water. Almost 14,700 topics have been started. Replies to those topics range from a handful to dozens. Most topics are viewed 100’s of times, and some thousands. I won’t even try to do the math, but that’s a boat load of community interaction.

In all this time I have deactivated three members, .0005% not counting spammers; deleted fewer than a dozen posts (most at the request of the OP); and locked fewer than a dozen threads.

Through all this continuing growth we have never published any numbered or bullet-pointed guidelines. The Tugnuts community has made the forum what it has been for almost 12 years - a nice place for folks (including more guests than members online at any time) to share knowledge and experience, make friends, plan gatherings and events, and find solutions. All focused on our common interests.

We believe this amazing community will continue to make Tugnuts the best, and most friendly, boating forum it can be. These are our guidelines.

Thanks,

Bruce
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

  • Tugnuts.com is the community hub for Ranger Tug, Cutwater, and Solara owners. Since its inception in 2008, the Tugnuts forum has grown into an active and thriving community of more than 9,000 members. It serves as both a meeting place for the best boating community online, and an invaluable archive of information.

  • User menu
Back
Top