Turning all lights OFF when leaving boat without shore power

[Red Raven]

The bilge pumps are not tied through any of the main disconnect switches for that reason. They are tied directly to the batteries through in-line fuses. It is OK to shut off all battery disconnects when leaving the boat. The safety stuff (bilge pumps, CO monitor) will still be on.

 

[baz]

Can't you just turn off the House Battery switch which will kill the power to all the lights?

At first blush this was the answer I was looking for. However, I've discovered using this approach for having the internal lights OFF will also turn OFF the power to the Webasto heater's control panel. This aspect then means the control panel's 30-day warning for running the heater for 20 minutes for maintenance becomes imperative. This is a nuisance but not something that a Calendar reminder cannot deal with.

 

[kf91]

This aspect then means the control panel's 30-day warning for running the heater for 20 minutes for maintenance becomes imperative. This is a nuisance but not something that a Calendar reminder cannot deal with.

We always turn off the house power when not on the boat and we get the reminders to run the Webasto.

 

[baz]

This aspect then means the control panel's 30-day warning for running the heater for 20 minutes for maintenance becomes imperative. This is a nuisance but not something that a Calendar reminder cannot deal with.

We always turn off the house power when not on the boat and we get the reminders to run the Webasto.

Are you sure about this ? Of course your R-27 maybe is wired differently than my 2018 R27/OB boat.

When I turn OFF the House power the Webasto control panel display goes blank. This tells me the control panel does not have power, unless there's an internal battery that allows the Control panel to keep track of time. If there's no power to the Control panel how can it flash its two red side LEDs when 30 days has expired since the last heater's maintenance 20 minute cycle ?

I will be calling Webasto Tech Help line 800-860-7866 to get the 'skinny' on this aspect.

As an aside, the heater's fuel filter is recommended to be replaced annually..... thus on my R27/OB this means removing the Microwave unit to get access to the heater unit that sits behind.... plus at this time I have no idea how easy it will be to replace the fuel filter.

[EDIT]
I discussed this issue today about the 30-day alert when power is not applied to the Control panel with the Webasto Tech Help at 800-860-7866 and was told the alert will not be active. When power is turned OFF to the panel any memorized data will be reset when power is returned to it. This means for example, if today you turn OFF the House power and the Control panel blanks out and you then return House power to the panel 60 days from now and leave it ON the 30-day alert will happen 90 days from now.

 

[ixlr8]

As an aside, the heater's fuel filter is recommended to be replaced annually..... thus on my R27/OB this means removing the Microwave unit to get access to the heater unit that sits behind.... plus at this time I have no idea how easy it will be to replace the fuel filter.

[EDIT]
I discussed this issue today about the 30-day alert when power is not applied to the Control panel with the Webasto Tech Help at 800-860-7866 and was told the alert will not be active. When power is turned OFF to the panel any memorized data will be reset when power is returned to it. This means for example, if today you turn OFF the House power and the Control panel blanks out and you then return House power to the panel 60 days from now and leave it ON the 30-day alert will happen 90 days from now.

Barry,
Does the Webasto really need to be run every 30 days? I don't understand the need to run other than the alarm goes off indicating it needs to be run. I always turn off my battery when I leave the boat, I still get the alarm.
On my boat, I was told the filter was in the box with the pump under the sink.

 

[baz]

Jim:

The Webasto manual for Air Top Series Heaters states... (N.B. Items #9 and #14)

Servicing and Safety Instructions

1. When the heater is in use, the surface of the hot air outlet will become hot to the touch. Contact with skin may cause burns.
2. Webasto heaters must be switched “off” when re-fueling at gas stations and/or while loading or unloading flammable materials for transport, to prevent the risk of explosion.
3. The year in which the heater was used for the first time must be permanently displayed on the factory plate by deleting the inapplicable years from the plate.
4. The heaters are not designed for heating hazardous substance transport compartments.
5. Claims can only be made if it can be verified that the claimant has complied with the servicing and safety instructions.
6. The heater may not be operated in enclosed spaces (such as garages) as a result of the risk of poisoning and asphyxiation, even if a timer is used.
7. In the event of long-lasting heavy smoke development, unusual combustion noises or a smell of fuel or if the heater suffers continuous fault cut-outs with error messages (flashing code), it must be shut down by removing the fuse and must not be used until it has been inspected by Webasto-trained personnel.
8. Wherever flammable vapors or dust may form, the heater must be switched off as a result of the risk of explosion.
9. The heat transfer unit on air heaters is exposed to very high thermal stress and must be replaced by a genuine Webasto spare part after a ten year life cycle.
10. The fuel specified by the vehicle manufacturer is suitable for use in an Air Top Series Heater B (gasoline).
The diesel fuel specified by the vehicle manufacturer is suitable for use in an Air Top Series Heater D (diesel).
There are no known negative influences due to fuel additives when used appropriately.
If fuel is extracted from the vehicle’s tank, follow the additive instructions issued by the vehicle manufacturer.
If you change to low-temperature fuel, the heater must be operated for approx. 15 minutes so that the fuel system is filled with the new fuel.
11. The temperature in the area around the heater must not exceed 85 °C / 185° F (storage temperature). If the temperature exceeds this level there is a risk of permanent damage to the electronics systems.
12. Non-compliance with the installation instructions and the warnings contained therein will lead to the exclusion of all liability by Webasto. The same applies if repairs are carried out incorrectly or by untrained technicians or with the use of parts other than genuine spare parts. This will result in the invalidation of the type approval for the heater unit.
13. Keep the hot air inlet and hot air outlet free of dirt and foreign bodies. Soiled or blocked hot air lines may cause overheating.
14. To prevent mechanical parts seizing, the heater should be operated for approx. 20 minutes once a month.
15. Do not stand on the heater, do not place any items of clothing, textiles or similar materials over the heater or in front of the hot air inlet and the hot air outlet.
16. The flow of hot air through the heater must not be restricted or blocked by highly flammable substances or materials such as rags, cleaning wool, etc.
17. The heater must not be cleaned with a high pressure cleaner.

Now after a bit of researching I found this on the Webasto web site for the SmarTemp Control & SmarTemp fx FAQ

Q: Will I loose programmed parameters in the menu if power is lost to the SmarTemp?
A: No, all programmed values by the end user will be saved; only time and date must be reset after a
power loss.

It appears the person I spoke with today at Webasto Tech Help gave me bogus information.

 

[kf91]

Barry - I should have been more clear. When we come back on the boat and turn the house back on, the red lights will be on if it's been a while since we ran the heater (haven't followed this closely, but assuming it's 30 days). I can guarantee you that we've never had the house power on for 30 days straight.

 

[baz]

Thanks to all for posting here. 🙂

For closure on this topic I have concluded....

1) The info communicated to me from the Webasto Tech Help line was inaccurate or that they misunderstood my enquiry.

2) With the House rotary switch in the OFF position the Webasto Controller will continue to alert boat owner about the need to run a maintenance cycle for 20 minutes when the House rotary switch is subsequently turned ON if the 30-day period has expired..

3) So long as the House rotary switch is in the OFF position the Webasto Controller 30-day alert flashing red LEDs will not happen. However, the user programmed parameters will not be lost except for date/time values when the House Rotary switch is turned to the OFF position.

4) The location of the fuel filter remains a mystery for me at this time.

If any of you find the above to be incorrect then please post back with the corrections. Thanks... 🙂

 

[Larry H]

The location of the fuel filter remains a mystery for me at this time.

Barry, Have you found the location of the heater fuel pump? The filter should be located by the pump.

 

[baz]

The furnace + its pump is located behind the Microwave and at this time I have not had a need to remove the Microwave. I'm simply wanting to know the exact location of fuel filter. If it's with the furnace or its adjacent pump then I presume to access/replace the filter I would have to remove the Microwave. I don't want to remove the Microwave unecessarily.

 

[Larry H]

Barry, I hear you on the microwave removal. I wanted to remove my microwave in my R-27 classic, only to find out there are two ell brackets on the back of the microwave with screws that can only be accessed by removing a panel at the foot of the cave bunk. I am too old and big to get down there. Sometimes it seems like the factory is building non-serviceable components in our boats.

It might be time to bug the factory guys about your question.

 

[baz]

Larry: Yes, you're right.... and to this end I chatted with Time Bates at RT today to get the skinny on this aspect for my R27/OB. I emphasize "my" because on the new R27/OB builds the pump and filter are not located in same spot as on my 2018 R27/OB according to Tim.

RT has a tendency to change things as their boat builds evolve.... 😱 :roll:

On my R27/OB the furnace and the pump/filter is located behind the Microwave. The Microwave can be removed simply by removing the teak surrounding the Microwave that's held by 4 screws. Tim assured me there are no L brackets on the backside of the Microwave; just blocks to stop it from sliding inwards toward starboard side. Thus access to the furnace + pump/filter should be quite easy. The pump/filter is in a separate black box adjacent to the furnace.

Now on the newer current 2019 R27/OBs the pump/filter is located under the sink. Opening the big lower cupboard door provides access to the furnace's pump/filter. The furnace is still located behind the Microwave and can be accessed as on my 2018 R27/OB.

 

[ixlr8]

The furnace + its pump is located behind the Microwave and at this time I have not had a need to remove the Microwave.

Barry, are you sure the pump/filter is located behind the microwave? In my boat there is a stainless box under the sink with a 1/4" copper line going in the front and coming out the back. I was told this is where the pump/filter for the diesel heater is located. I will be at the boat on Sunday and I will get some pics if you want me to.

 

[baz]

Jim: Yes, my pump/filter is behind the Microwave and adjacent to the furnace box. Time Bates told me that on later R27/OB builds they moved it to under the sink area where you are obviously seeing it.

 

[ixlr8]

Jim: Yes, my pump/filter is behind the Microwave and adjacent to the furnace box. Tim Bates told me that on later R27/OB builds they moved it to under the sink area where you are obviously seeing it.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like servicing is going to be a hassle.

 

[Joan and Jim]

I recently moved from a 2011 R29 to a 2017 R31. Both have main power switches for engine, thrusters and house. It had been my habit, perhaps an unwise one, to leave on the house switch while turning off the others. On occasion I would turn off the house switch on the R29 and, since reading this thread, am making a point of always turning it off now. However, unlike my previous boat, when I turn on the main house switch, the screen for the auto-pilot comes on even though it has its own on/off switch which I then have to use to turn the screen off. The auto-pilot itself does not seem to come on - only the screen. Nothing else comes on - not the chart plotter, AIS, radio - nothing. I occurs to me that this can cause problems. For example, I might turn on the main switch to cool the fridge perhaps 24 hours before leaving on a trip. If the cover for the screen is in place, I will not notice that the screen is also on and it might be for many hours. Does anyone know why this happens and if there is a way to prevent it? Thanks.

 

[jagizzi]

If it is the same autopilot that is on the 23, there is an auto on setting in the setting menu. I may not have the Garmin terminology but it was obvious from the name.

Dig around and make that change and you should be able to make that stop.

Jim

 

[nzfisher]

Barry,
I am curious about your statement that the zincs last longer with the power off. I have always left power on to provide constant battery charging (could be a bad assumption- I was told that batteries don’t charge on this boat unless switches are on by factory). Anyway given your statement do you have enough history with your boat in the same slip same conditions same neighbors to know the zinc life is better? If so, that is really valuable information that I will make use of in the future and thanks for this insight.

As a PS if the stoves have an internal clock chip that runs without power then there is a battery involved somewhere that has a life (a little time bomb for the future 3-5 years down the road).

 

[baz]

Barry,
I am curious about your statement that the zincs last longer with the power off. I have always left power on to provide constant battery charging (could be a bad assumption- I was told that batteries don’t charge on this boat unless switches are on by factory). Anyway given your statement do you have enough history with your boat in the same slip same conditions same neighbors to know the zinc life is better? If so, that is really valuable information that I will make use of in the future and thanks for this insight.

As a PS if the stoves have an internal clock chip that runs without power then there is a battery involved somewhere that has a life (a little time bomb for the future 3-5 years down the road).

My diver service which I've contracted with for past 10 years confirmed that leaving boat without shore power connected has had a significant impact on lessening the underwater zinc erosion. The diver service has observed this with other boats they maintain. I've gone from having to have my zincs replaced every 3 to every 9 months and this is with the boat being in the same Marina, but different slips (maybe two different ones), neighbors coming and going so this is not a constant.

Several years ago I complained to my Marina about possible 'leakage' from other boats not being grounded correctly or their boat's metals not bonded to ground etc, or that the Marina's shore power facility was somehow at fault. They came to my boat's shore power pedestal and hooked up some gear and monitored voltages and currents and concluded there was no problem.... 😱

When disconnecting the shore power cable I do so by switching the breaker on the pedestal to OFF and then physically disconnecting the boat's shore power cable from the pedestal's electrical receptacle. I was advise to do this last thing as simply setting the breaker to OFF would still mean a ground connection was active to the boat and that could present an issue. So a complete electrical isolation from the shore power circuits was needed. For past 9 months or so I have only connected the Marina's shore power to my boat for 24 hrs per week. I live but a few minutes from my Marina so this is something I can do easily and is not inconvenient for me.

For me, the diver service inspection results has confirmed disconnect shore power as I described above is very beneficial in that the underwater zincs are lasting longer and still doing their work in protecting the boat's metals.

At this time my R27/OB has underwater zincs on the outboard's lower bracket (a big plate like one) and trim tabs. The bow thruster does not require a zinc.

 

[Joan and Jim]

Hi jagizzi. Thank you for the advice which I have successfully applied. Problem solved.
Jim.