UPDATE -HULL CRACKS-2018 RANGER R27

Thanks Brian for the comment . I have been beaten up pretty good on the site by some . I know writing is not my thing and sometimes have a hard time getting my thoughts down on paper correctly . I know that the majority of the members on Tugnuts have never made a mistake, but I can admit it . I notice the majority of the comments are from the West coast . I understand that they want to defend their home brand . I have read numerous posts about the plant having to bail their dealers out , on problems that should never have left QC at the plant . Maybe the plant should look at their QC and should choose their dealers a little more carefully .
 
This thread is growing stale. The subject matter seems like it is better suited for Judge Judy than it is Tugnuts. I benefit from 99% of the posts here, but this one is more a grievance in search of retribution rather than a problem in search of a solution. Just my opinion...
 
Opinions are like other body parts we all have them, I would think most of us would like to know what caused this failure so it doesn't happen to us! Bob
 
I have kept up and read all the posts on both listings. What I'm not clear about is:

1) If the boat had the cracks when the first owners got it, how could it be 25 hours in the water without major leaking that would be very evident?

2) Was there anytime that the boat was moved on a trailer by the dealer after they got it off the railroad tracks from the first owner?
 
Hi Richard , answers to the questions, the boat never was left in the water by the original owner , he would go out for 2-4 hr ride , and put it back on the marine railway, then into boat house . The boat sat for about 10 days at the dock at the dealership, and had a lot of water in it the day of the shipping ( the mop story ) in the first “ Ranger tug purchase story “ I think I mentioned ? Or might be one of my many copied emails sent to the dealership and plant ) . Anyway when I got the boat in my possession I found the 24/7 fuse panel had all the fuses out , this includes the radio , c02 sensor, and bilge pump floats . This was done , I am told to keep the batteries from running down over winter . The techs failed to reinstall them in the spring . So that is why boat was full of water at the dock . Left long enough, it could have sank . Normally the bilge pumps would keep up with the 12-14 gallons a day it was leaking . Only the manual switches will operate the bilge pumps without the fuses in . —— the dealer never moved the boat by trailer after the original owner bought it. All moving done by water. I have pictures when I had it moved , and the set up , supports , are 100 percent, nothing close to the cracks . Sorry for the jumbled up text , I am still learning . ———what I am good at ...... is documenting everything. Have every email, text copied , phone calls , times. , dates , pictures, copies of everything. I have over 1 1/2 inches on copied documents in a binder . It is almost like a movie . There is so much information, my one finger typing couldn’t do it all .
 
Hi Richard , answers to the questions, the boat never was left in the water by the original owner , he would go out for 2-4 hr ride , and put it back on the marine railway, then into boat house . The boat sat for about 10 days at the dock at the dealership, and had a lot of water in it the day of the shipping ( the mop story ) in the first “ Ranger tug purchase story “ I think I mentioned ? Or might be one of my many copied emails sent to the dealership and plant ) . Anyway when I got the boat in my possession I found the 24/7 fuse panel had all the fuses out , this includes the radio , c02 sensor, and bilge pump floats . This was done , I am told to keep the batteries from running down over winter . The techs failed to reinstall them in the spring . So that is why boat was full of water at the dock . Left long enough, it could have sank . Normally the bilge pumps would keep up with the 12-14 gallons a day it was leaking . Only the manual switches will operate the bilge pumps without the fuses in . —— the dealer never moved the boat by trailer after the original owner bought it. All moving done by water. I have pictures when I had it moved , and the set up , supports , are 100 percent, nothing close to the cracks . Sorry for the jumbled up text , I am still learning . ———what I am good at ...... is documenting everything. Have every email, text copied , phone calls , times. , dates , pictures, copies of everything. I have over 1 1/2 inches on copied documents in a binder . It is almost like a movie . There is so much information, my one finger typing couldn’t do it all .
 
Well, if the boat was never on a lift after the new owner got it and never on a lift afterwards, why do you think it got set on a lift or whatever that caused the cracks? Or, is it possible the new owner got it with the crack already there?
 
THE BOAT WAS ALWAYS STORED ON THE ORIGINAL OWNERS MARINE RAILROAD , IN THE BOAT HOUSE ( RAILROAD WAS INSTALLED FOR THE RANGER ) . I BELIEVE THE DAMAGE HAPPENED AT 3 POSSIBLE SPOTS , PLANT , IN TRANSPORT TO ONTARIO DEALER OR AT THE DEALER ( BEFORE THE ORIGINAL OWNER GOT IT ) . I WAS A WELDER BY TRADE , AND KNOW SMALL HAIRLINE CRACKS CAN SPREAD INTO LARGER CRACKS WITH STRESS , VIBRATION ETC. ALSO WE DON'T KNOW IF THE FIBERGLASS WAS PROPERLY LAID UP , COULD HAVE VOIDS OR BE DRY IN THE AREAS FROM LACK OF RESIN . I AM NOT A FIBERGLASS EXPERT , BUT I KNOW THAT ALL THE AREA WHERE THE CRACKS ARE , ARE COVERED BY TANKS , YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING . THE PLANT HAS TOLD ME THIS CAN BE FIXED FROM THE OUTSIDE , I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT ? ADVICE FROM FIBERGLASS PEOPLE OUT THERE ? I NEVER DID RECEIVE THE REPAIR RECOMMENDATIONS THE PLANT WAS SENDING . THE ONLY THING I GOT WAS A LAWYERS LETTER THAT THE DEALERSHIP COULD FIX IT , IF I PAID . MY LAWYER HAS ADVISED ME NOT TO DISCLOSE THE $ AMOUNT , IN MY PERSONAL OPINION , I BELIEVE IT IS AN OUTSIDE ''BAND AID '' REPAIR TO KEEP ANYONE FROM SEEING INSIDE THE HULL .IN MY PERSONAL OPINION , AGAIN , I THINK IT COULD BE A COMBINATION OF BAD FIBERGLASS AND COMING DOWN ON A BLOCK . I HAVE HEARD STORIES OF FIBERGLASS BOATS BEING JACKED AND BLOCKED , AND HEARING NASTY NOISES FROM THE FIBERGLASS , BUT NOT SEEING ANY VISUAL CRACKS ( YET ) . ----- TAKE THAT BOAT AND LIFT IT AGAIN , BLOCK IT AGAIN , PUT IT IN THE WATER AND GO OUT AND HIT SOME GOOD WAVES FOR 25 HRS . I WOULD BET ( IN MY OPINION ) THAT THE CRACKS START , AND THEY GET BIGGER AS THE STRESS CONTINUES TO BE PUT ON THEM . ------ I AM JUST THANKFUL I NOTICED THIS PROBLEM AND I DIDN'T HEAD OUT ON THE 150 MILE PLUS TRIP ( ONE WAY ) , AND HAVE THE HULL SPLIT OPEN MORE ,AND UP AT THE BOTTOM OF LAKE HURON .
 
I now understand. I'm glad you have an attorney. I have had warranty issues with RT, but they were eventually taken care of fairly. I know this isn't a warranty issue, but is is still unclear who is at fault. In my opinion, it is highly unlikely that RT would ship a boat on an improper trailer. However, (this post will probably be taken down by RT) since the dealer represents RT, it seems to me that they still have some exposure. Usually in these type of claims, every possible litigant with deep pockets is included. Bottom line is, I bet the dealer is directly responsible for the cracks, but they definitely are responsible for misrepresenting the boat. If I were you, I would never except a boat with these problems, even if repaired, because if they reappear in 3 years and you would have no recourse. I would only settle for a full refund.

Good luck,

Richard K
 
I stopped at 1) not a RT issue as out of warranty and all caps post. Sounds like dealer issue.
 
Mr. Matty, no where in this post has RT's Ben accused of being at fault! A fellow shipmate has a serious problem and is posting so the rest of us will be informed. We are not all english majors and our grammar and typing skills may be lacking a little. Mistakes were made but none of us are perfect and is no reason to belittle someone going through what this owner is going through. I for one hope for a good outcome so this owner can get back on the water and enjoy his Ranger Tug. Bob
 
Bob: PM’d you to clarify...no belittling intended.
 
Sorry for the caps , i leave the caps on when i get tired , as i type with one finger .
I don't believe i blamed Ranger Tugs , i will try to put down what i said . ALL comments are in my personal opinion .
1- I am not happy that the plant did not supply me with the factory recommended repair document
2- I am not happy it was dragged out 8-9 weeks for the plant and dealer to tell me they have no part in this problem at all
3- I said , i believe the damage/cracks happened at one of the 3 spots , plant,----in transportation by the unknown freight company to Ontario , or at the dealership
4- I believe if the repair was done from only the outside ( as they suggested ) , no one would know if there are any fiberglass defects inside that contributed to the cracks . The interior fiberglass should be checked
5 - that quality control and warranty needs improvement at the plant and dealership
6 - that Ranger/Fluid Motion should choose their dealers carefully
7 -For a plant building a high end boat , you can't use sub standard equipment . eg , stock anchor is not even a good lunch anchor ( i switch to a ROCNA ) . The shore power plug is old school ( possible melt downs and fire ) the new ''Smart Plug '' is much safer . I would spend a little extra for good stuff .
8 - Lack of sealant - I believe the employees dab sealant lightly because they don't like cleaning it off when it squeezes out . My 2013 R27 had moisture readings under cleats and bolt on items . It cost me over $ 3000 when the boat was sold during the trade this summer .
I feel there is a real West Coast thing , most ( but not all ) are so loyal to the Ranger/Fluid Motion brand that they will ignore my facts . Then they say '' IT'S ON YOU '' I do appreciate the members that took the time to read through all the posts and comments .
 
davecook":9gkmhk6l said:
THE BOAT WAS ALWAYS STORED ON THE ORIGINAL OWNERS MARINE RAILROAD , IN THE BOAT HOUSE ( RAILROAD WAS INSTALLED FOR THE RANGER ) . I BELIEVE THE DAMAGE HAPPENED AT 3 POSSIBLE SPOTS , PLANT , IN TRANSPORT TO ONTARIO DEALER OR AT THE DEALER ( BEFORE THE ORIGINAL OWNER GOT IT ) . I WAS A WELDER BY TRADE , AND KNOW SMALL HAIRLINE CRACKS CAN SPREAD INTO LARGER CRACKS WITH STRESS , VIBRATION ETC. ALSO WE DON'T KNOW IF THE FIBERGLASS WAS PROPERLY LAID UP , COULD HAVE VOIDS OR BE DRY IN THE AREAS FROM LACK OF RESIN . I AM NOT A FIBERGLASS EXPERT , BUT I KNOW THAT ALL THE AREA WHERE THE CRACKS ARE , ARE COVERED BY TANKS , YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING . THE PLANT HAS TOLD ME THIS CAN BE FIXED FROM THE OUTSIDE , I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT ? ADVICE FROM FIBERGLASS PEOPLE OUT THERE ? I NEVER DID RECEIVE THE REPAIR RECOMMENDATIONS THE PLANT WAS SENDING . THE ONLY THING I GOT WAS A LAWYERS LETTER THAT THE DEALERSHIP COULD FIX IT , IF I PAID . MY LAWYER HAS ADVISED ME NOT TO DISCLOSE THE $ AMOUNT , IN MY PERSONAL OPINION , I BELIEVE IT IS AN OUTSIDE ''BAND AID '' REPAIR TO KEEP ANYONE FROM SEEING INSIDE THE HULL .IN MY PERSONAL OPINION , AGAIN , I THINK IT COULD BE A COMBINATION OF BAD FIBERGLASS AND COMING DOWN ON A BLOCK . I HAVE HEARD STORIES OF FIBERGLASS BOATS BEING JACKED AND BLOCKED , AND HEARING NASTY NOISES FROM THE FIBERGLASS , BUT NOT SEEING ANY VISUAL CRACKS ( YET ) . ----- TAKE THAT BOAT AND LIFT IT AGAIN , BLOCK IT AGAIN , PUT IT IN THE WATER AND GO OUT AND HIT SOME GOOD WAVES FOR 25 HRS . I WOULD BET ( IN MY OPINION ) THAT THE CRACKS START , AND THEY GET BIGGER AS THE STRESS CONTINUES TO BE PUT ON THEM . ------ I AM JUST THANKFUL I NOTICED THIS PROBLEM AND I DIDN'T HEAD OUT ON THE 150 MILE PLUS TRIP ( ONE WAY ) , AND HAVE THE HULL SPLIT OPEN MORE ,AND UP AT THE BOTTOM OF LAKE HURON .
Click to expand...

Dave: I don't think there is any value in speculating at what defects could have been caused by the factory in the absence of any real evidence for it, and where such speculation potentially muddies your claims against the dealer who sold you the broken boat.

It seems clear from your posts now that the dealer sold you the boat from his inventory, and not as a broker for the original owner, so he is responsible for his assurances as to its condition. It also seems clear that he induced you not to reject the vessel when you discovered the technician hurriedly mopping the wetness, and promised you that he would make it right for you, so you are entitled to enforce the promise. And, it seems clear that the dealer has since repudiated his promise, so you are entitled to rescind the contract on his breach.

I would encourage you to concentrate your energy and resources on effective and timely rescission with the dealer, and to discontinue seeking alternate theories of liability that would undermine your remedy. The dealer can pursue his own collateral claim theories against others (such as against the trucking company that he used for delivery to you) if he finds it compelling to do so, or will likely just claim the loss on his insurance. That's not your problem.

Best of luck in your efforts to undo this failed purchase.
 
Dave, Your insurer will go after the transport company, haul out people, the dealer or whomever else handled your boat between the no crack and cracks situation so I encourage you to take the advice of the person who suggested you contact your insurer. I am no detective but I would conclude damage occurred due to someone else's error and not Ranger Tugs. Ranger Tugs is not responsible for used boats except those currently under warranty no matter how much one schmoozes with the company during prior boat ownership or how many hours are on the vessel. Schmoozing is a sales tool and never a substitute for a warranty or a survey. Your boat could have been damaged during haul out or rolled in a transport accident so why would you think Ranger Tugs should remedy your situation for free or even address your concerns other than to repair it for what they would normally charge anyone to do the same repairs? I would not expect any company to hold themselves accountable for damage to an item out of warranty unless it can be proven that a defect during manufacturing or with parts exists that caused damage to occur. The type of publicity you are putting out there with these post could be harmful to Ranger Tugs reputation if read the wrong way or if it appears in search engines as a 'blip read' so please take that into consideration. Hopefully your insurer will lead you down a logical solutions path.
 
My insurer will want nothing to do with me as I did not damage the boat . In my personal opinion the plant does not want the boat repaired from the inside as it is possible there are fiberglass defects inside that will come to light . The dealer and the plant seem to think you can fix the cracks from the outside . I would like to see the factory recommended repair procedure that Ralf and Andrew promised me , but they didn’t send me a copy . Only the plant and the dealer have one . I guess the owner does matter . Once again , the only 3 spots the boat could have been “ blocked “ are 1- the plant 2 - the unknown freight company to Ontario 3- the dealership . The keel is the strongest, thickest part of the hull , what is behind the cracks ?
 
For the record , I am a real person , with a real Ranger tug with real cracks . Talk to people from the Great Lakes Rendezvous. I have had a Ranger Tug from 2014 on . This is real , and in my personal opinion Ranger Tugs have Quality Control problems and need to pick their dealers carefully. It is not a coincidence that the majority of the comments about me picking on the plant are from Washington. The silence from the Ontario dealer Is deafening.
 
davecook":n7hce6ku said:
The silence from the Ontario dealer Is deafening.
Click to expand...

But not surprising.

You have mentioned your lawyer. I’m sure the dealer has one too and the first advice from any lawyer will be to let them handle the matter. Once again I wish you well but this one will either be settled between lawyers or in court, not on TugNuts.
 
Dave, Structural repairs are usually straight-forward and can be completed quickly. While they are very unsightly, structural cracks can usually be repaired to provide a hull that is as strong as new.
I would find a repair shop that is honest and has a good reputation and one you trust! Get your boat fixed and enjoy. Let the legal system work for you and live your life to the fullest!
Best of luck and God Bless. Bob
 
Thanks Bob for the kind words . We believe , in our opinion that the damage is more extensive than that . Thanks again
 
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