Upgrade Solar, add wind generator

[mlanger]

I am interested in increasing the capacity of the solar panel on my 2019 R 29 CB, hopefully to 400 W. My understanding is that the installed controller can only support panels up to 200 W. I’d also like to add a wind generator to my system that would work in conjunction with the solar panel to keep the engine and house batteries charged. The company I’ll be working with to get this work done has requested details about the existing solar installation. Where can I get the documentation for them? Is there already existing guidance for doing what I want to do?

I want to add here that the solar set up and Webasto Heater on your Northwest edition boats really make them excellent cruising boats when spending time at anchor. Unfortunately, it’s not quite as much power as I’d like it to be; I can get two nights at anchor but after the third night or if it’s cloudy during the day, things get very iffy. I think that increasing solar power generation and adding wind generation that could work at night would give me all the power I need on my boat. I’d like to suggest that in future versions of our boats, you include a higher capacity solar panel.

 

[jack_patricia]

Mianger, I can speak to the wind generator portion of your post. We've cruised with wind gens on two different boats. The first was an Ampair unit built in the UK and mounted on a mizzen mast during a year of cruising down to the Virgins and back, so in an area with almost constant winds. We mounted an early model AirMarine unit on the mizzen of another boat, later replacing it with a more current AirMarine model and took that boat to 53 countries over 11 years. So it's fair to say we had a good deal of real world off-grid experience with wind generation. And at times this was in parts of the world where wind is almost constant (Caribbean, Atlantic islands, SW Pacific). My view is that you just won't see much benefit from a wind generator, especially if you're based in an area where wind is infrequent and only a byproduct of the typical N Amercan frontal weather systems. This is why cruising sailboats have shifted predominately to solar plus lithium even with the complications that a sailing rig can bring. The logic is there for wind, to be sure. Always 'on', dependent on a power source different from solar, it's 'green' and so forth. It's just a reality that the swept area and weight limitations for a boat can't generate significant power. There are other issues (noise, vibration, sufficient mounting height) that also must be dealt with, as well. We appreciated the power we got from those wind generators because neither solar nor lithium were available to us. But in today's world, wind generation IMO has been superseded by other technologies. (Based on your post, you sound to me like a potential lithium customer). Good luck to you.

 

[glider4]

As for upgrading your solar system, there are many, many threads on this site with recommendations and several with step by step guidelines on how to do it.
Step 1 is figuring out how much room you have for a panel or panels. Solar panels come in all sizes and knowing what size will fit your install is the starting point.
Platt Electric in your area is a great source of solar panels. They ship them to your nearest store at no charge. Lots of choices and the ones on sale are bargains.
Almost everyone likes the Victron Energy Smart Solar MPPT Controllers. They are more efficient than the PWM controllers typically installed by FM. You can get VE controllers in the appropriate size to support the panel(s) you are using. A typical 400 watt panel usually pairs nicely with the VE 100/30 controller. Amazon is one source of VE controllers.
Next, make sure the existing wiring is robust enough to carry the current you will be moving from panel to controller and from controller to battery. Install a resettable breaker near the controller coming from the panel. Make sure the fuse or breaker near the battery from the controller is properly rated.
You will need a few special crimping tools and MC4 connectors to make the connections for the wires coming out of the solar panel.
If you can use the existing wiring the entire solar upgrade takes just a few hours. Again, lots of threads with much more detail are available on this site. One of the easiest owner upgrade projects out there. Total cost to upgrade to 400 watts is easily under $600. I upgraded our C-28 to 335 watts (biggest panel that would fit) using the existing wiring for about $475 total in todays component prices.
The upgrade to lithium batteries is much, much more complex and expensive.

PS: Be sure to review the FM produced video on YouTube regarding power management
https://youtu.be/Uj_am-ecSt4?si=nE-DUlxwbjy5l4rh

 

[Submariner]

I have 400 watts of solar. It provides us with about 80pct of all the power we use onboard. Our battery bank gets us thru the night and the solar recharges it throughout the day. On a rainy day in July I usually see about 50ah, on a sunny day I’ll see upwards of 200 ah a day. I can count on a better than average 100 ah a day throughout boating season.

My set up is documented on our website. I also have a power management spreadsheet that I created for Ranger Tugs that helps a lot with sizing of the solar panel.

400 watts of solar needs a 30 amp MPPT controller.

Wind power I’m not interested in. When it’s windy I run and hide the boat someplace safe, out of the wind. But solar is crazy effective.

https://www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/boat-upgrades/solar-panels


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[mlanger]

My view is that you just won't see much benefit from a wind generator, especially if you're based in an area where wind is infrequent and only a byproduct of the typical N Amercan frontal weather systems. … (Based on your post, you sound to me like a potential lithium customer). Good luck to you.

Thanks for taking the time to provide some valuable input. I really do appreciate it.

The truth of the matter is, I’m not based anywhere. I’m currently cruising on the great loop and have been experiencing plenty of places with winds in excess of 15 miles an hour overnight. I really think that wind generation will make a difference for the boat, especially when one of those cold fronts comes through with clouds that make the solar pretty much useless.

I just replaced the house and engine batteries in the boat last winter so I’m not interested in replacing them with an upgraded system of batteries right now. I really think that generating more power and keeping those batteries topped off with it is what I need. It’s not as if I’m running an air conditioner with it. I’m running a coffee maker and occasionally a microwave and I’m charging devices like a laptop and phones. Of course, I’m also running at least one refrigerator and it would be nice to be able to run the wine cooler, too. I’m not happy about having to limit my days at anchor because of power shortfalls that I really think I can prevent by adding more power generation to the system.

I enjoy the peaceful solitude I find at anchorages I would like to spend more time with them. I think I should be able to generate enough power to do that.

Again, I appreciate your response and the benefit of your experience.

 

[mlanger]

…My set up is documented on our website. I also have a power management spreadsheet that I created for Ranger Tugs that helps a lot with sizing of the solar panel.

400 watts of solar needs a 30 amp MPPT controller.

Thanks for this. I will definitely check out that spreadsheet and the documentation on your website. It might be exactly what I need to handoff to the folks doing the upgrade for me. 400 W is what I was thinking of. The price of solar panels has come down considerably and I suspect I’ll be able to swing for that. But I still think wind is worth adding for when it’s not sunny out. I’m hoping to cruise the inside passage in 2025 and I know from experience that sun isn’t available every day every place along that route.

As for staying someplace safe when the wind howls, I’m with you. Unfortunately, it’s not always possible when you’re constantly on the move.

 

[glider4]

In response to a PM I received about how to do a 400 watt solar system upgrade for under $500, here’s the equipment list. Remember this assumes you have 10 AWG cable from the controller to the panel and the run length is less than 20 feet. The solar panel puts out a max of 48 volts at 12 amps for which the 10 AWG installed cable will work well.
400 Watt Q Cell Solar Panel from Platt Electric $270
VE SmartSolar 100/30 MPPT Controller from Amazon $125
Two GLOSO Resettable Breakers (one 15A & one 30A) from Amazon $16/each $32 total
Yakima Mighty Mount Round mounts for Sports Rack Set of 4 Amazon (if needed) $16
Solar cable crimper and MC4 Connector kit from Amazon $21
8 AWG WindyNation Copper Cable at Amazon 15 ft red & 15 ft black (if needed) $35
Total upgrade cost $499
Of course if the run from the VE solar controller to the battery is longer than 15 feet then you may need 6 AWG cable at a higher cost. There are a number of online wire gauge calculators online to check and confirm the gauge wire needed for your specific situation.

 

[Gin]

My understanding is that, in measuring run length, the total is "round trip," not just one way from the controller to the battery. That can make a big difference is how many amps you want running through the wire. FWIW.

Gini

 

[Submariner]

I ran #6 awg from the controller to the battery on the 12 volt side. I also upgraded to a 40 amp fuse. 400 watts can output 30 amps at 13 volts. 6 awg is the largest wire that the Victron mppt solar controllers support. The run is about 30 foot round trip on my boat.

Also, yellow is the preferred color for negative DC power. Black is 120 volt AC power.


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[glider4]

Gini, yes you are correct of course. But many of the on line calculators use one way distance as the input taking into account the round trip impact.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

I checked the specs of my new 340w panel and I could keep my existing cable runs from the roof to the new controller. I ran a new cable to the house battery to meet specs

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15871&hilit=+340

 

[Gin]

Gini, yes you are correct of course. But many of the on line calculators use one way distance as the input taking into account the round trip impact.

Glider4, that’s a good reminder. I especially like Nigel Caldor’s calculator (https://boathowto.com/wiresize/abyc/. You do have to make sure you input the round trip length, but the calculator makes it clear that you should be doing that.

The word of caution, though, is to figure out just how direct or indirect the solar pre-wire routing is. Much of the wiring on the R31 is installed, for example, via a common harness that runs down the starboard side post in the sedan behind the helm seat. If the solar pre-wire went in with that harness, that wiring would run from the panels, into the hardtop over the cockpit, forward into the cabin and under the ceiling liner to the post, down the post, then back to the starboard lazarette to the solar controller. If that’s the routing, round trip that would be a pretty darn long run. When I upgraded my solar, I opted to use two “dual” 190 watt solar panels. Externally, each is a single panel. But internally, each is really two panels 95W panels that can be wired either in series or parallel (which permits halving the amperage and doubling the voltage, and vice versa). Right now, I’ve got the two panels set up for lower amperage and higher volts, and that is working out fine for me. I could probably switch them (higher amperage, lower volts) without exceeding what the solar pre-wiring will bear, but I would want a better idea of the round trip length of that wiring to confirm that the amperage won’t exceed the wiring’s capacity.

Gini