Value determination of a used Ranger Tug

[Bruzer]

New to this forum and in the process of looking for a used Ranger Tug, 4-5 years old, with a trailer. I am interested in the R-29S Luxury Edition. When making a determination on the value of a vessel when you have two tugs built in the same year, what dollar impact do optional features have on the asking price? Example: what is the dollar value increase when one tug has the aft helm station--$4,000-5,000 and the other does not? What if the tug had a RIB, 9.9 hp Yamaha, and Weaver davits? What’s the added value? Is there a general formula for hours on the engine? If one tug has 1,500 hours and the other has 250 hours (assuming both have had comparable maintenance and service), how does this variable impact the asking price? If the tug has been in freshwater only, how much does that impact the price? Having owned sailboats for over 40 years, I understand that every boat has trade-offs and there are compromises to be made based on what the potential buyer is looking for. I also know that the market dictates the price AND time kills all deals. I have been impressed with the wealth of knowledge that I have found on this forum and the respectful answers offered. Any advice or suggestions is certainly welcome as we search for our next boat. Thank you.

 

[glider4]

For what it’s worth, here’s my opinion on a few of your questions.
As for options pricing impacts. Look at the current RT price for an optional item. For a 4-5 year old boat I’d guess that the option might add about 2/3 of the new cost to the asking price. For a 8-10 year old boat maybe 1/2 the new cost or less.
Thats’s price.
The value is another thing. Our C-28 came with aft helm station. I’m sure it added to the price and will maybe help at the eventual resale price but we don’t ever use it so it has no value to us. On the other hand, our boat didn’t have divits, dinghy or dinghy motor so we spent about $4.5K to get that purchased and installed. We use the dinghy a lot so its value to us was worth the expense. If you fish a lot a full enclosure canvas cockpit enclosure probably doesn’t add value but if you cruise a lot it’s worth its weight in gold!
Good luck with your shopping. Be sure to check Yachtworld.com regularly to compare features and pricing of boats listed there. This forum also has a FSBO section that sometimes has great deals.
As to engine hours there’s no “formula” I know of. Personally, I don’t want a 5 year old boat with 1,500 hours on it. Neither do I want a 5 year old boat with 50 hours on the engine. I prefer 75-125 hours a year. To me that shows enough usage to keep things working without overworking them. Our 5 year old C-28 had only 165 hours on it which was on the low side for a boat that age and actually concerned me. A good maintenance history is probably just as (or more) important than engine hours.
Always, always get a professional survey done!

 

[jack_patricia]

Bruzer: If you want to slice things that thin re: price - value is yours to determine - you might find it useful working with a buyer's broker. To see how it works, usually without cost to you above the negotiated price of the boat, I'd suggest you watch the video embedded in here: https://www.curtisstokes.net/yacht-buye ... rvice.html This option is not always possible tho'. Some brokerages lack geographical presence and also the listing broker may not want to share the commission (paid by the seller) if the market is healthy and/or the boat is popular and will move fairly quickly. Meanwhile, to approach it differently, keep in mind that all brokers have access to previous sales info (including initial & sold prices). So e.g. when recently shopping for a C24, I asked a broker representing a C24 of interest to me for all 2020-2022 R23/C24 boats sold in Florida during the last year. You're right, every boat is different (trailer? autopilot? engine hours?. But I ended up with 4 sold listings plus 2 boats currently being marketed, and those 6 were enough for me to get a firm notion of what a fair price was for my general location and boat age. The survey's in two weeks!

Good luck to you.

 

[bob daily]

Value determination is what ever the market will bare! Each buyer and seller are different as to how much one wants there dream boat and how bad one wants to get rid of there investment. Right now the most boats on this site fore sale by owner is the R-29. You should be able to get a good review of prices compared to installed equipment, age and condition of the boat. A good deal is where the seller is satisfied with the price and the buyer is happy with the great deal on there dream boat. Best of luck on your quest for your dream boat! Bob

 

[BB marine]

The market value of the boat is what you are paying for. All extras, options, equipment is what makes the deal better. I have purchased many used power boats and when looking for a specific model I know what the price range is. I look at boats based on standard equipment. If a specific boat model has a price range of say 200K to 225K and it is a 6 year old boat I know that I would pay 225K if I found that specific model boat that is in Bristol Condition and I would pay less if it was in need of some TLC. After a full evaluation of the boat I will access my offer price. This price is based on market value of the boat and has nothing to do with the equipment on board. Equipment can be added or removed. Factory options are expensive and are added to boats when new because the buyer requested them for their specific needs. In my opinion theses additional options have no value in price but have value in comparing apples to apples when purchasing a used boat.

Example: I'm looking for a Ranger R-29 2014. Boat (1) standard power 260 D4 Volvo, 650hrs on the engine, Generator has 400 hours, The owner has full maintenance records all matching the engine manufactures service recommendations, The hull and top sides are in good condition but need some TLC. A surveyor completes his/her report and the boat comes back with a Near Bristol Condition report. Boat needs fluff and buff and bottom job. All electronics are original, Marine air units are functional. There is no additional equipment, factory dinghy, cockpit helm, solar, ..... The boat is in real good condition and the owner is asking 180K.

Boat (2) Standard power with 350 hours, 20 hours on the generator, The boat has Cockpit helm, solar, factory dinghy set up (over 10K in options when the boat was new), original factory electronics, Random service records that show repairs done based on need not preventative maintenance, Hull and top sides need TLC, Surveyor report is average condition. The owner is asking 180K

Boat (3) Standard Power, D4 260 650 hours,Generator 400 hours, The owner has full maintenance records. Basically this boat matches up identical to Boat (1) Near Bristol Condition fluff and buff and a bottom job. The difference is it has solar, cockpit helm, and factory dinghy. The owner is asking 185K

Which one would I make the offer on? Boat (1) and (3) My offer would be the same for either boat. I would not pay more for Boat (3) because I am buying a boat not equipment. The equipment is a plus and makes the deal better but does not increase the value of the boat. If I really wanted that cockpit helm I may throw 1K extra but solar or a dinghy that is disposable equipment that personally I would want to be latest greatest technology. Any option is a owners desire to own. The insurance companies or banks don't look at those things as value and the value they put on them is 25cents on the dollar at best.

When you are purchasing a boat or a car used the bells and whistles are perks to the purchase but add little monetary value. When you go to trade a boat in. The salesman will ask what boat do you own. You answer, what condition is it in, You answer, What power plant does it have. You answer. At that point he/she knows what the trade in value is. Then he/she will ask what equipment does it have. You answer. The equipment additions will add very little if any more value. One exception (trailer will add 1K to 2K to the value.

When you buy a used boat buy the boat not the boats that has the equipment you want. You can always add the equipment and it will be new and have a warranty.

I have bought and sold many boats. A clean well maintained boat is worth a lot more than an average condition boat with equipment. A clean boat with all the bells and whistles is the boat you want but the Book Value is is not much different than the standard Equipped boat.

Good Luck with your search.

 

[S. Todd]

I think that Brian has undervalued the trailer in his comments - if you want a trailer. I new trailer for a PWC costs more than a thousand dollars. The aluminum trailer under our R29 cost more than $20,000. The manufacturer's upcharge just to put Goodyear Endurance Tires, rather than the standard Chinese imported tires, on our trailer added another $1,000 ($145 per tire). A good condition (fresh water only) trailer (properly built for your specific boat) with nearly new or new tires that you need and want for your boat is probably worth far more than $1,000 to $2,000 when trying to factor the value of that item into the overall buying decision. If the trailer has old tires, been bathed in salt water and doesn't properly fit your boat, I agree it is not worth much in the price determination.

 

[glider4]

My view is that a boat is just a big collection of equipment. Obviously the engine and hull are the two biggest pieces of the equipment list. FM has made a name for itself by packing an unbelievable amount of equipment into the size of their boats. In the old days the options list for the basic FM boats was quite extensive. Then FM consolidated popular options into the NW and Luxury editions and the options list shrank. But all that equipment adds some level of value to the boat and its presence or absence will have an impact on pricing.
When we were shopping for our C-28 last year, I compared all the boats we looked at (about 10 over a 4 month search) to what the asking price of the boat was plus or minus the equipment list we would need for our intended extended cruising vs what the boat was equipped with as is. A truly stock C-28 NW edition with no options would have needed perhaps $30k in upgrades and additions to get the boat set up the way we wanted it. A boat with every possible option, including trailer, would have only needed $5k-$10k in upgrades.
Was the maintenance history and condition of the boat important? Of course! We eliminated the boats with high engine hours, rough condition and/or poor maintenance records from consideration. But for boats in great condition with good maintenance records our offering price was significantly swayed by the boat’s options list. We ended up offering on three boats. One seller changed their mind about selling, one thought we were offering too low but ended up selling for less than we offered eight months later and the third boat is sitting in our driveway. Our highest offer on one boat was $25k more than our lowest offer on a different boat based on age, condition and optional equipment. We still ended up adding well over $20k in upgrades, including a newer EZ Loader triple axle trailer for $11k, to get the boat set up right for our purposes.
Second the thought that a used tandem or triple axle aluminum trailer with electric over hydraulic brakes is worth much more than $1-$2k. If anyone out there has a used trailer for a FM boat matching that description that they want to sell for $2k please drop me a line!
I’ve owned a 2002 30 ft tandem axle aluminum trailer that looked close to new when I sold it with the boat in 2015. It was in perfect functional condition when sold. With proper maintenance an aluminum trailer should last 20+ years. And with recent (2022) pricing of a new EZ-Loader triple axle trailer in the $13k+ range I just don’t believe a used well maintained aluminum trailer depreciates to near zero after just a few years.

 

[Bruzer]

I appreciate the feedback and suggestions that have been offered. I took Jack’s suggestion of talking to a broker to heart and asked the broker that is listing our sailboat to see what the actual sale price was in comparison to the asking price for R-29S that have recently sold. He affirmed what Bob said regarding the number of R-29s for sale by owners, but the majority by far, were CB models. I’m looking for the R-29S. He also said that the actual selling price was 15-25% of the asking price. I read in a Marine Industry bulletin that reinforced this, because of the glut of “covid” boats that were bought during the height of the pandemic are now entering the market because of lack of interest by the owners. I will need a trailer for the boat we want, and S. Todd’s comment about the cost of a trailer is spot-on. A new Float-On trailer at dealer cost delivered is about $13K, and I bet it would be tough to find a used one in decent shape with good rubber for under $10K. Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

 

[glider4]

Bruzer,
Good for you having a great idea what you are looking for! The flip side of narrowing down your buying search is that it reduces the number of boats on the market that meet your criteria.
I’d ask your broker about the impact of seasonality on pricing. If his statement that boats were selling for 15-20% under asking was that based on asking prices vs sold prices in October and November? There seems to be a fairly big swing in prices based on seasonality. I’ve observed that prices tend to firm up in March to June as demand picks up. In addition to the COVID market, higher loan interest rates may be influencing actual closed sales pricing. As boat loan rates slowly drop this year, that may boost pricing to a degree.
Good luck in your search!

 

[jack_patricia]

One other variable we haven't discussed, Bruzer, is the location(s) where you are shopping. Sailboats on the market in the Annapolis area and powerboats in the West Palm/Miami area enjoy a price premium because...well, who knows why but they do. The last four months would probably have been a good time to shop for a boat in the northern part of our country, and maybe that's true for another month or so. I don't know where your broker is located who offered the 15-25% asking vs. selling price number, but my search in the overall Florida market suggests that's a bit too high to expect. But who knows; it may be accurate for his area.

 

[BB marine]

I think that Brian has undervalued the trailer in his comments - if you want a trailer. I new trailer for a PWC costs more than a thousand dollars. The aluminum trailer under our R29 cost more than $20,000. The manufacturer's upcharge just to put Goodyear Endurance Tires, rather than the standard Chinese imported tires, on our trailer added another $1,000 ($145 per tire). A good condition (fresh water only) trailer (properly built for your specific boat) with nearly new or new tires that you need and want for your boat is probably worth far more than $1,000 to $2,000 when trying to factor the value of that item into the overall buying decision. If the trailer has old tires, been bathed in salt water and doesn't properly fit your boat, I agree it is not worth much in the price determination.

This is taken somewhat out of context. My example was a 2014 29' Ranger Tug with an estimated value 180K Which I think is a ball park value of a 2014 R29 in near Bristol condition. If boat (1) did not have a trailer and boat (3) did have a trailer I would consider that option worth adding 1K and maybe 2K to my offer. I would not go much more than that because the overall value of the rig would not warrant more than that when looking at actual value. Trailerable boats with trailers do not add much monetary value. I'm not referring to purchasing a couple year old boat and trailer. Even then I'm not paying close to full value for optional equipment including a trailer but obviously more than 1K to 2K because it is newer.

This is my reasoning. A 10 year old triple axel Ez loader boat trailer value is 3K to 4k book value in good condition, I agree. At 1K to 2K It will make the deal right when spending 180K for the complete rig. I have this opinion based from past boat deals. Boat trailers are not always maintained. 10 year old EZ load trailers with torsion axel suspension with a 29' Ranger sitting on them and trailering over the road are close to the end of the life expectancy, Brake lines and brake fluid changes on boat trailers need continual maintenance. If not replacement components will be needed. Tire replacement is usually done every 3 to 4 years. If planning on trailering. A 29' Ranger Tug is not a small runabout to trail down the road. It is a big load and requires a good trailer. I want to make sure a trailer is road worthy and trouble free. I would plan on 5000lbs axel replacement x 3, purchase new Goodyear Endurance Tires, x6 , ] have the bunk boards replaced, Winch and cable replaced, new LED lights installed, brake actuator cleaned, replaced, brake lines, and away I go with a good reconditioned trailer ready for miles and miles, another 10 years of trouble free trailering. Now you have a like new 10 year old trailer with close to 10K invested . Take the advise of many that a boat trailer is worth a lot more than 1K to 2K in a boat deal. You would be better off to purchase the boat without the trailer and purchase a new trailer ready to go with a multi year warranty. All new equipment that will give me 10 years of low maintenance operation. Sure it would cost more than the old trailer that you invested 10K in but still only worth 3K to 4K. Been there done that!! I'll take the trailer but I'm not giving much for it.

The question was asked in this thread was. "When making a determination on the value of a vessel when you have two tugs built in the same year, what dollar impact do optional features have on the asking price" My opinion - stays the same Not Much ! A 29 Ranger Tug same year with all the bells and whistles and one with standard equipment are worth about the same amount. The big options at best .25 on the dollar. The older they get the more that will drop. The positive note for the seller, is the Ranger Tug will hold its base value better than most production boats. When you as a buyer purchase a used Ranger you will loose less than the original owner did. The depreciation seems to flat line on these boats after four or five years. The replacement cost of new Rangers increase each year and as long as there is a demand the price of used will stay strong.

The boat selling market is settling down a bit. There is a lot of used post covid boats on the Market. I don't think this affects the Bristol condition used boats as much as the average condition boats. There were a lot of turd boats sold in 2020/2021 and part of 2022 at elevated pricing. I think this year will be a buyers market! Yes interest rates are high but most purchasing boats in the 100K to 300K range are purchasing with cash and getting decent deals.

This is my opinion. We all have them.

 

[S. Todd]

I will confess, Brian's comments were taken out of context. (Note: I follow Brian's comments on this forum frequently and find them to be excellent advice.) I was focused more on the OP's comments that he was looking for a R29 that was 4 or 5 years old. I agree with Brian that boat tires should be replaced at 3 or 4 years of age (especially if stored out in the weather - mine is garaged and I get 5 to 6 years out of tires. Brian's example was a ten-year-old boat and assuming a 10-year-old trailer. If not stored indoors that trailer is getting to the point in time where Brian's noted up-grades are significant. Note: For our custom-built trailer under our R29, the dealer and trailer manufacturer agreed with us that three 6,000 lb axles was a better match than three 5,000 lb axles. That highlights an issue that impacts further the amount of value you would put on a trailer as part of a used boat purchase - is it the trailer you even want for the type and distance of your hauls? Hauling the boat hundreds of miles to launch or just across the parking lot from a storage lot may impact the type and quality of trailer you want.