Vibration on 2022 CB31 - need some direction

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Salty Gal

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Fluid Motion Model
C-302 SC
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Scout
I purchased my 2022 Ranger Tugs 31CB in Pensacola FL last year and then sold my home in FL and moved back to my home in Maine. I took our 31CB from SW FL to Pocket Yachts in MD via the ICW from April to June 2022 for some warranty work. Prior to arrival there we noticed a vibration getting worse that was present when we first operated the boat new but didn’t seem significant. Upon entering Chesapeake Bay it was much more pronounced above 1800 RPM.

The prop was removed, checked, and put back to specs at our cost after the prop shop said it wasn’t set up correctly new. We surmised that was the problem, however upon picking up the boat in Nov at Pocket Yachts in MD the vibration was still present and has gotten worse as we traveled down the ICW towards FL for the winter.

I had the engine alignment checked a few days ago and it was found to be in spec at .005. I have been trying to get the drip rate right but it’s either no drip at all, or 4 drips a minute for a short time then by the end of the day up to 10 drips a minute at rest (not underway and shaft not turning). I tightened it back to no drips at all and the shaft and nut temp is about 75 to 80 degrees in 57 degrees water temperature in the ICW. The prop shaft nuts are vibrating but I cannot measure how much, but the vibration in the boat can be felt and seen on the steering wheel, table, engine cover when up, etc. at 18000-2000 rpm normal cruise speed. I occasionally take it up to 3100 to 3200 rpm to cross open water ocean inlets but am afraid to keep that speed for fear of doing further damage.

The prop area has a whine sound starting at 1,000 rpm and higher. I suspect this is “prop singing” but am not certain. I was going to schedule a haul out in Savannah GA to check the cutlass bearing but Brandon in Fluid Motion Parts Dept. doesn’t think that’s the problem so I am continuing on south and might be able to schedule a haul out in Brunswick GA, but don’t want to be chasing fixes unless I know what to look for. I have about 320 hours on the engine.

I bought a new boat because I was tired of fixing used boats all the time, however, I find myself in the same situation as before, that is, operating a boat with issues, only this time I am at a loss. I have spent about $1,500 so far chasing this problem with no resolve yet, and am reluctant to haul out and have a yard mechanic change this and that and still have issues after a week off the boat spent in hotels, getting a rental car, etc., and still not have it fixed.

Can you please help give me some direction as to what I should check, or whom to go to in order to fix this problem. Should I go a yard? Should I go to Pocket Yachts in Jensen Beach FL on my way south?

I appreciate any advice you can offer.
 
Salty Gal":1gmcumam said:
The prop was removed, checked, and put back to specs at our cost after the prop shop said it wasn’t set up correctly new. We surmised that was the problem, however upon picking up the boat in Nov at Pocket Yachts in MD the vibration was still present and has gotten worse as we traveled down the ICW towards FL for the winter.
Click to expand...

When I read this first quote. I question what the Prop shop did to the prop? If undamaged ( never had an impact ) I find it hard to believe that an ACME Prop was out of spec. They are CNC cut props. It may have been damaged at the Fluid Motion factory or dealer ship before you took delivery. I doubt it was a damaged wheel from ACME. I would have requested a new prop from the dealer and send the old one back to Fluid Motion.

I had the engine alignment checked a few days ago and it was found to be in spec at .005. I have been trying to get the drip rate right but it’s either no drip at all, or 4 drips a minute for a short time then by the end of the day up to 10 drips a minute at rest (not underway and shaft not turning). I tightened it back to no drips at all and the shaft and nut temp is about 75 to 80 degrees in 57 degrees water temperature in the ICW. The prop shaft nuts are vibrating but I cannot measure how much, but the vibration in the boat can be felt and seen on the steering wheel, table, engine cover when up, etc. at 18000-2000 rpm normal cruise speed. I occasionally take it up to 3100 to 3200 rpm to cross open water ocean inlets but am afraid to keep that speed for fear of doing further damage.

I'm not sure where you received .005 is spec ?? There are specs based on coupling diameter, .001 for every inch of coupling diameter. With Maximum angular misalignment being no more than .004. A 5" coupling is .004 maximum. I would not except .004 alignment. I shoot for .001 would not except anything above .003 if I want a smooth running operation. .005 misalignment will cause vibration. There is more to alignment than angular misalignment. There is also offset alignment. Many technicians and boat builders do not always achieve this when aligning the shaft tube to the engines coupling center line. The angular can be close (.005 is not) but the offset off and this too will cause a vibration and premature reverse gear failure and cutlass bearing failure. My suggestion contact Fluid Motion and make arrangements to have a full alignment offset and angular checked. If I were in the Savannah area I would contact Hinckley or Thunderbolt marine. Ask questions !!!!

Packing adjustment. No drips when the engine is not running. 3 or less when the engine is running and in gear. There should be no trying to get the drip rate right. It takes very little adjustment to get that gland to proper adjustment. I have adjusted packing in a 31 Tug PIA!! But completely doable. With a drip rate of 10 drips a minute it should take no more than 1/8 of a turn. I would start with 1/16 of a turn probably enough. When you start mark the adjustment nut at 12 o'clock . Move the adjustment nut 1/32 of a turn. start the engine put it in gear. let it run for a few minutes then check drips. if you need to go more. Shut everything down adjust to 1/16th turn. repeat. The problem starts when a DIY boat owner adjusts it to much and moves a 1/2 turn to start. You just took 100's of hours of packing life away. Then more adjustments to the point it is damaged. That gland is very easy to adjust if you take "baby steps". 5 to 10 F difference from ambient water temperature to gland temperature with a properly adjusted gland. There may be some temperature increase from the water cooling the gland because it is raw water that is used to cool the engine. I would not want to see it any more than 20F above ambient,

If the issue started from the day you took delivery and is getting worse. It is time to get the factory involved. Let them troubleshoot the issue and make it right. There should be no vibration in the operation of a D4 Volvo penta and a 31 Ranger Tug. If there is there is something that either happened from an impact or was not assembled, adjusted and align correctly during the build and the pre delivery. Good Luck.
 
I agree with Brian to get the factory involved. One other thing to check is the prop fit to the shaft. If that is off it can cause significant vibration. Props should be lap-fitted to the shaft taper with valve grinding compound to assure excellent contact between the shaft and prop. Reference https://marinehowto.com/lap-fitting-a-propeller/ for additional information. Not all marine service personnel are aware of this requirement. I know from experience.

Good luck.
 
A couple of other possibilities are a bent shaft or loose engine mounts.

A bent shaft is pretty unlikely since you state that the vibration is getting worse. Also, I would think it would be difficult to measure while installed in the boat. To bend the shaft would also likely mean a severely impacted prop that would have been noticed in the shop.

Loose engine mounts however would be consistent with your symptoms, getting worse over time. On our boat I found three of the engine mounts (nuts on the top) were loose and I have heard of others also with loose engine mounts. Check all four and if loose recheck the shaft alignment and offset before tightening.

Curt
 
Thank you for the excellent suggestions. The time and energy folks on this forum put in to help others is great.

Yesterday I had more severe vibration and had to stay below 1200 rpm for fear of doing some damage. I decided to solve this issue before we move on.

My mechanic last week failed to check the engine mounting nuts adequately as I was able to turn the port forward nut about 1/4”, indicating to me that I’m likely troubleshooting engine alignment still. I have another mechanic from Tiger Point Marina in Fernandina Beach in FL today working on alignment with me. Cudo’s to them for taking time at short notice to help. Once we succeed we’ll align and get tolerances on the coupling to .003 or less, and sea test. If that fails to solve the vibration issue then we’ll likely haul out and check the shaft, cutlass bearings, and whatever else they suggest.

I only have adjusted the packing ever so slightly, and those slight changes made a big difference in drip rates. I think this again points to an alignment issue.

I’ll post the final fix in the event this helps others if they encounter the same issues.
 
It turns out that we have a broken prop shaft that’s cracked about 75% around the shaft, and it’s not due to any grounding or anything we could have done to cause it. Many thanks to Carl Manning at Edgewater Yacht Sales in Pensacola, FL for his excellent support in helping us contact Fluid Motion for a fix. Also, many thanks to Ken Mars and Tim Blake at Fluid Motion for quickly responding to the situation. We’re still working through everything but I’m confident that Fluid Motion will come through with everything and we made the right decision to buy a new boat and receive great support after the sale. I’ve always heard their support is legendary and now I know why.
 
Shafts don't crack for no reason. The shaft should be a marine hardware Aquanox double taper shaft. High quality and not normal subject to cracking. Hopefully Fluid Motion and their dealership representative will not only find and replace all components but also troubleshoot what the cause of the failure was. Again shaft don't just crack. If the shaft is cracked near the prop it may have not been fit properly when installed. The fact that the vibration was from the start after delivery and the prop was out of wack. Based on what the prop shop stated makes me suspicious. Acme props are precision machined cast props. They are not out of spec. Marine hardware shafts are known to be precision machined shafts and quality. If the crack is at the coupling that too is a taper fit and needs to properly installed. It should be fit without the key marked and then a proper draw onto the taper should be realized.

Improper alignment of the X dimension ( Offset) will cause stresses on the shaft and vibration. The misaligned offset will cause heat at the packing and the cutlass bearing. Inboards the main contributor to this is strut or keel extension misalignment. The center of the cutlass bearings must be aligned in a straight line to the center of the engine or reverse gear coupling. This is hard to repair but it can be repaired. For strut style running gear, strut is shimmed. It can be string aligned or laser. Laser is more accurate. For keel extension running gear ( Ranger Tug) the keel extension needs to be removed and then realigned. Fluid motions method at the factory is old school wood cradle placed across the stringers and a shaft???

Improper angular alignment is common and is normally checked and adjusted after a dealer takes delivery of the new boat. The boat is launched and left sitting in the water for a day or two so that the hull settles as it is fully supported by water. The coupling is loosened, bolts removed, Offset checked , then angular checked and adjusted. A 1 1/2" shaft, the technician should shoot for .001 to .003. Anything more then that will cause a vibration. The more out of alignment the more vibration. the more vibration the better chance of reverse gear bearings failure, cutlass bearing failure, packing failure, engine mounts loosen and fail and worst case shaft failure.

A vibration never gets better it always gets worse because there is always a root cause for the vibration. The longer the vibration is present the better chance there will eventually be a failure.

Replacing failed components fixes what is broken but does not fix root cause. Hopefully Fluid Motion will not only supply parts for you but they will do all the proper checks needed tp make sue your New R31 is seaworthy.

Good Luck!
 
I second what Brian is saying about the keel extension. It happends. On my RT25SC the allignment was out so far that the engine needed to be raised will above the mounts adjustment capability to achieve proper alignment. I believe this was a keel extension alignment problem which I believe was a contributing factor in the premature failure of my reverse gear. After proper alignment was achieved I could not close the engine hatch without removing the engine cover plate.

If it was me I would not just replace parts until a complete inspection of all components were verified to be in proper alignment. This would be money well spent to avoid future problems. If you purchased the boat new from Liquid Motion they should cover the cost. In my case, I purchased the boat used and they will not cover any manufacturing defects in thoes cases.

Good luck with the repairs.
 
Thanks for the info. We found what appears to be a crack on the top half of the extension that houses the shaft and cutlass bearing. Fiberglass techs are grinding it out and we’ll inspect and repair. Could be crazing but appears to be cracked. Strange how this could have happened. We never grounded, and if was hit somehow I would expect a crack to appear on the lower portion. The prop hasn’t been damaged, and was checked and found to be in spec. by a prop shop. The new shaft is in and we’ll check alignment before and after launch following repairs, and conduct a sea trial to ensure the vibration is gone. Ken Mars at Fluid Motion and Carl Manning from Edgewater Yachts in Pensacola are very helpful and, while I won’t go into details, are behind our efforts to get this fixed and on our way. I’m grateful I purchased a new rather than used boat due to their support.
 
Below are photos of a R29 build. As you scroll through them you will get to the section that the Keel extension is being installed. My opinion this procedure is quite crude and old school for alignment of the shaft log to engine. It must work. It does work, there is Room for error. A tech having a bad day, a lot of error. Based on the description of your issues, the shaft is removed, I would want the center line from center of the Cutlass bearing to the center of the engine coupler checked. This needs to be a straight line. The shaft needs to ride in the center of the packing gland. If it doesn't the alignment of the keel extension is probably off and was off when it was installed and this slipped through QC production.
Questions to ask the technician
(1) did the shaft turn easily before it was removed. ( it must be lubricated or at least wet for proper check). It must still be coupled to the engine coupler for proper check
(2) When removing the shaft was it hard to pull out and did it get easier after going through the packing gland?
(3) Was the packing inspected after shaft removal to see if there was even wear 360 degrees. If not at what point was the wear heavier? 12 o'clock ,3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 9 o'clock
(4) the same inspection of the cutlass bearing needs to be done. Is the wear on the cutlass bearing? Most cutlass bearings with a proper alignment last 1000 to 1500 hours
(5) is the crack at the keel extension found at the point were it is glued to the hull? Look through the photos posted here (compliments of Baz) You will see how the installation is done. A slurry is made up of fibers and resin. It is mixed up into a paste and is used to fasten and seal the keel extension to the hull. There are also some fasteners used to hold the extension in place. You can see them if you look at the area aft of the packing gland. ( Without seeing the issue you have I would bet that is where the crack is.
(6) After grinding the crack what is the cause of the crack. Not being able to see what the technician is seeing I can only speculate.

My opinion is misalignment. From what you have posted the issue was there when you purchased the boat new. As with any Manufactured product in the USA. The Manufacture is responsible to repair manufactures defects. This should be the case if you purchased the boat new or used. If it is in a reasonable time frame from production date and is a manufactures defect. In your case Fluid Motion is looking into it now. "Water over the dam" Why didn't they look into the issue when you noticed it and had warranty issues repaired. A simple proper alignment would have told the story.

The keel extension installation has got to be right. This is the backbone of many mechanical components retaining longevity. I can honestly say I had no issues with my C26 when it came to engine alignment, packing gland, or cutlass bearing. I had 650 hours on my Volvo Penta D3 with no reverse gear issues. Honestly if the install is done right there should be no issues for 20+ years or thousands of hours as long as routine maintenance is preformed. I have questioned, why are many folks with Rangers and Cutwaters posting here, and other forums about packing failures, alignment issues, transmission failures in boats that are 10 years or newer with under 1000 hours? I know Ranger owners R25 and R27 that have replaced engines ,transmissions, packing, cutlass bearings, found loose engine mounts..... I know of and corresponded with Cutwater and Ranger 29 , 31 owners with similar issues. Granted this is a small percentage of Ranger and Cutwater owners when compared to how many boats that Fluid Motion has produced.

I give you credit for saying: I’m grateful I purchased a new rather than used boat due to their support. I alway thought purchasing new boat, so you don't have issues. "New" means just built and quality control measure taken so that I have trouble free boating. Between the delivery and first time in for warranty issues the major issues that slipped by QC should be taken care of. It sounds like you did that, Delivery from a dealer and then warranty issues taken care of from another dealer and now on the hard having a repair shop do work that should have been addressed and resolved. It is a New Boat!. My wife and I purchased a new Cutwater in 2016. We did have Quality control issues with the build. We were never stranded because of an issue like what you are having. We did have issues though. All of the issues I repaired and did get reimbursed a couple of times from Fluid Motion. I have no complaints personally. We sold this boat and vowed never to purchase a new boat again. We purchased a 20 year old boat. I did as needed preventative maintenance items and a few new electronic installs. Threw the lines in August of 2022 and did the Great Loop. We spent 14 months of trouble free boating over 6000 miles and 850 hours of engine time. The boat was recently lifted and put into storage. After a full inspection of the boat Alignments, shafts, engines, shaft seals all mechanicals (Good). The boat needs to be waxed and coat of bottom paint and a way we go for another trip starting in the summer of 2024. I give you credit I would be upset if I purchased a New boat 300K+ and never made it home yet.

Make sure the issues are repaired right and completed properly. Cross your T''s and dot your I's. Follow the job, ask questions and get answers. Research the answers. This should not be happening to a New boat! Your original post asked for advise. This post and previous post are my advise. Working with the guys at Fluid Motion is a plus they know the build. ASK questions! Hopefully it is an easy fix. Good Luck.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B1AGWBC59GWGScl
 
Well, after a sea trial we still had a few millimeters of movement in the shaft log, where the shaft meets the packing. We had the tech spend many hours trying to realign the engine again, and still have the same issue at 1800-2000 rpm. We got to about .003 alignment, have a new shaft, new cutlass bearing, new packing, the prop checked, and still have a problem. I’m at a loss as to what to do from here and am going to ask my dealer tech and Fluid Motion for assistance. I’m afraid we have a structural alignment issue with the extension tube. After $6,000 in repairs I’m not confident that we can operate the boat without causing more damage, and am left questioning my decision to purchase this boat in the first place.
 
I am sorry you are still having problems. A few questions I would ask. Was the new shaft verified to be true, not have any bend (I don't know acceptable spec for shaft but may be a question to ask). Was the coupling to the shaft on transmission side lapped if a tappered shaft? Other things to check to isolate the problem, would be to disconnect the shaft form the transmission and rotate the shaft to determine if there is any variation on the surface of the coupling to the transmission. I would also check the coupling on the transmission side the same way to determine if it has any variation.

Liquid Motion or a rep should be there to help you with this problem. I hope you get the support both on site and $$.

Good Luck, Dick
 
Hopefully the Fluid motion technicians and customer service folks will help resolve your issue so you can enjoy running in your New Ranger.

There are several articles that can be read about alignment. Don't just read one. There are many opinions about the subject but there is one reality. Rotational equipment (Drive) coupled to rotational equipment (Driven) must be balanced and operate in a straight line for equipment longevity (minimal vibration). I worked many years aligning marine engines and just as many working as a millwright aligning large machinery. The tolerances were the same when it came to alignment. There were more variables included with the alignment calculations. Below are three of many articles written about alignment.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449

Understanding what and where the variables can be will help in troubleshooting. The problem with many marine service centers is they don't have the time for troubleshooting. Replace broken parts, see if it is better and then move on to something else. Every part removed tells a story. I can only speculate based on the information given. There may be something completely different going on. It's time to get the people that know the build and the installation involved.

I suggest asking the factory or the dealer if you can sea trial another R31 and compare. You may find that it is a common condition ( I hope not) but maybe! Good luck, it's a new boat the issue can be resolved.
 
Sorry to hear about your problem with a new boat and the money that has been spent trying to fix. You have been given some excellent advice on this site but I would suggest getting some outside professional advice/troubleshooting from a independent source IE- a survivor that is knowledgeable about marine drive systems. This will be money well spent and will provide you with the knowledge for the fix. A third party look at the problem would be a good insurance policy to hold the dealer and the manufacturer's feet to the fire. Best of luck. Bob
 
Thank you for all of the great responses and assistance. In speaking with Fluid Motion representatives, and sending video of the vibration, they told me that it is not excessive in their opinion. However, I am not convinced that having a vibration between 1800-2000 rpm is normal, especially since we didn’t experience it for the first 200 hours on the boat, and it can be felt on the steering wheel and seen on the engine cover when opened and on the interior table. It’s not only annoying, it makes me concerned that there will consequences down the line in the cutlass bearing, transmission, or other places. The deviation from true centerline, as measured on the round portion of the stuffing box, appears to be about 1mm deviation as it turns, and the coupling has .003 tolerance on 4 sides. It appears to run smoothly in the boat interior above 2200 rpm, bit the deviation can still be felt on the stuffing box. I have a drip rate of 4-5 per minute. We’ll continue to operate the boat and see what happens. I hope they come through as promised on reimbursement for warranty repairs as well as this current situation. I do thank Fluid Motion and my dealer tech for at least responding promptly and calling me back regarding this issue.
 
Heartfelt thanks go out to Emile, the owner of Edgewater Yachts in Pensacola, FL, my dealer, and to Carl, their lead tech, and to Fluid Motion to help resolve this problem. Emile even flew out to meet us while we were cruising and see firsthand what we were facing, and gave us great advice, guided by the folks at Fluid Motion ON A SUNDAY. Wow, that’s service!

Though we had engine alignments checked in GA, and performed multiple times in northern FL, the problem wasn’t resolved until Sun Diesel in the Miami area aligned the engine properly starting with the lower nuts. It turns out that they were not firmly seated down on the engine bed, causing vibration and eventually cracking the prop shaft and loosening the prop shaft nut.

Fluid Motion, thru our dealer Edgewater Yachts in Pensacola, FL, is reimbursing us for all of the work and parts, even though the two previous alignments were not done properly, and the tech from Sun Diesel finally performed a proper alignment.

We’re still waiting for reimbursement for warranty work done by Pocket Yachts last fall, but because we sold our home in FL and moved the boat north to the Chesapeake Bay Area, we didn’t take it to Edgewater Yachts in Pensacola for some minor warranty work. I’m confident this will get resolved soon. Had we taken the boat to Pensacola we wouldn’t be out of pocket for the warranty work, but taking the trip up the ICW last Spring and back south for this winter was a great adventure.

I’m glad we purchased a new Ranger Tugs 31CB from Edgewater Yachts, and appreciate the fantastic support from them and the team at Fluid Motion. Though we were sometimes frustrated by the experience of having issues while cruising, they always had our backs and assured us that they would help us figure it out. I never expected full reimbursement due to shoddy work done by mechanics and their two failed engine alignments, but Fluid Motion and Edgewater Yachts were there for us throughout the process of getting it fixed.
 
Emile and Carl are the best!


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