Volvo Penta D3-200 replacement?

PicoGoss

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
47
Fluid Motion Model
C-28
Hull Identification Number
FMLT25171910
Vessel Name
Nano
Our R27 inboard had a VP D3 200 that has died. Our shop, Florida Detroit Diesel of Panama City, FL can’t find a replacement in the US or Sweden. Can any one give us a lead on a replacement? Maybe a different brand even?
 
We had to replace the D3-220 Volvo on our 2016 R-27.
North Harbor Diesel in Anacortes, WA found one.
Might contact Patrick at NHD.
As I understand it, there were only 3 R-27 's built with the 220.
If you can find one, the 220 should fit with a little modification.
Bill
 
Out of curiosity, why did these need replacement? (I would expect 20 years plus.)
 
SJI Sailor":2kjgngt4 said:
Out of curiosity, why did these need replacement? (I would expect 20 years plus.)

Your expectations would be wrong 🙂

Old school diesel engines (high displacement) could chug along for 20+ years (many are still in use). They have a lot in common with tractor engines. These types of marine diesels are still used in some boats.

The turbodiesels in our boats are much more like automotive diesel engines. If you think about an automotive diesel as having a lifespan of about 200,000 to 400,000 miles, that's roughly 6,600 to 13,000 hours at ~30mph (which is a little conservative). 10-12 years (or less) is a more realistic expectation, depending on hour many hours you use it.
 
PicoGoss":30ivwowh said:
Our R27 inboard had a VP D3 200 that has died. Our shop, Florida Detroit Diesel of Panama City, FL can’t find a replacement in the US or Sweden. Can any one give us a lead on a replacement? Maybe a different brand even?

Have you tried these guys? https://www.marinepartsexpress.com/engines.htm

I know another owner of a Volvo Penta (D6 though) who got his from them.
 
If you are looking for a replacement engine Bobtail you could open your search to a D3 built from 2015 to 2021. 140 hp to 220Hp. The engine block and bolt on's are the same. I did a quick search just to see if there are any complete D3 complete Bobtails available in US. 2020 D3 new on crate came up, 140 hp complete 16K. Talk to the shop. If they are a Volvo dealer they should be able to complete the conversion from 140 to 220 hp using the electronics from your 220 hp. Trying to find a drop in 220hp may be difficult. Finding a New D3 long would be easier. This one I found on Ebay after a 2 minute search located in New York.

eBay item number:164851949255

SJI Sailor":25zo7yrk said:
Out of curiosity, why did these need replacement? (I would expect 20 years plus.)

I would be interested too.

The D3 is a good engine but it is not a diesel engine that can be run hard in a semi displacement hull. The D3 is a good engine to be installed in a small light planeing hull or a twin application in a 30' boat capable of running on plane and cruising at 2500 to 2800 rpm. If it is installed in a boat like a Ranger or Cutwater it had better be propped right. It also requires a maintenance program to be above recommendations. I personally think the internals will stay together for 2000 to 3000 hours if maintained and propped correctly. The bolt on's are what will fail and take the engine out. My biggest concern when owning the C26 with the 220hp was the compartment temperatures, the 1" thru hull for raw water cooling, the raw water pump belt tension adjuster, the timing belt tension adjuster, Cleaning and flushing the anti freeze every 2 years or 200 hrs, Flushing the already compromised raw water cooling system to try to keep the engine operating as cool as possible. The D3 aluminum block and head in a marine application should be operated at thermostat settings ( Opening temp not full open temp) . This is a light duty 5 cylinder engine. It holds 5.5 quarts of oil small filter and is designed to be in a small car that normally operates at 1800 rpm to 2200 rpm @ 70 mph. It has a lot of quick response power but in my opinion was not built to be run at 3600 rpm all day long. It can do that but your not going to get 3 thousand hours doing that. Volvo did not build this engine for the long distance cruiser. They built it for the boater that puts 100 hrs a season on a engine . It will last 20 years in that application. The application in a semi displacement boat that WOT is 18 or 20 kts and over propped putting 200 hrs a season is not going to give you 20 years. Be happy with 1500 to 2000 hrs and hope for 2500 or 3000hrs and 10 years of longevity if well maintained.

For the Ranger or Cutwater owner that wants to cruise at 7 kts and run the engine @ 2250 all day long this is a perfect engine. Prop it light, change the oil, antifreeze, keep the engine compartment dry and clean, clean ventilation filter and air filter, clean fuel, Inspection and replacement of raw water pump and inspection of timing belt and keep the operating temperatures around 180F and you will see 3000 hours of trouble free operation. My opinion
 
Very interesting, thank you for all the info as always, Brian! And @FlyMeAway for resetting expectations 🙂
 
I'm still interested in what failed and why?

As Brian has pointed out, the mechanicals are the same for any d3 marine version, from 140 to 220HP.
 
Wow. I would love to know why these engines failed and how many hours were on them. I also love Brian's response. I am comfortable when I am doing 7 knots at 2200 rpms and 180 degrees and feel like going all out just doesn't seem right on my D3 even though it "can". I have 130 hours on my 2016 RT27.
Dean and Patti
 
BB marine":19v4sg8q said:
It holds 5.5 quarts of oil small filter and is designed to be in a small car that normally operates at 1800 rpm to 2200 rpm @ 70 mph

Brian you give a lot of good advice but this bit just isn't true.

These engines were never designed for automotive applications; Volvo Penta (which hasn't even been part of the same business as Volvo Cars since the 1990s) designs the engines in our boats as marine engines from the ground up. The difference is more that these diesels are designed to fuel-efficiently propel a small boat at relatively high speeds, whereas the marine diesels of yesteryear were less concerned with economy and certainly not with anything faster than displacement speeds -- and were rarely designed from the ground up as marine engines. Tractor and heavy equipment engines have durability (with, it is worth noting, frequent maintenance and overhauls) as a core part of the engineering spec -- but are generally less reliable. A brand new John Deere tractor may last for 40 years of continuous use but will need twice the maintenance in its first year than a brand new Toyota car, which may only last 10-15. That isn't a question of "automotive" design per se, because there also also tractors which require half the maintenance of the John Deere but will only last 10 years (they're made by Chinese brands you've probably never heard of).

I suspect our engines, like most "modern" engines (be they in a car or a boat) are built for fuel economy and reliability -- but not durability, which is core to the discussion we are having here.

There has been a general shift away from durability towards reliability. This isn't just true of boats; the reliability vs. durability question applies broadly in how industrial design has changed over the last ~50 years. An excellent overview (from the automotive world) can be found here: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/theres-a-b ... urability/
 
FlyMeAway,

I can't speak to reliability or durability, however I always thought the basic engine came from Volvo cars. I googled history of VP D3 engines and found a VP press release that states the basic engine comes from the Volvo Car Corporation. It is then highly modified for maine applications. So I guess everyone is correct. 😱
 
dclagett":qnf2qyna said:
FlyMeAway,

I can't speak to reliability or durability, however I always thought the basic engine came from Volvo cars. I googled history of VP D3 engines and found a VP press release that states the basic engine comes from the Volvo Car Corporation. It is then highly modified for maine applications. So I guess everyone is correct. 😱


The story is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_D5_engine

Remember that 1 PS is slightly smaller than 1 HP. I really love the metric system 😉
 
FlyMeAway":207yrikn said:
It holds 5.5 quarts of oil small filter and is designed to be in a small car that normally operates at 1800 rpm to 2200 rpm @ 70 mph


Brian you give a lot of good advice but this bit just isn't true.

These engines were never designed for automotive applications;
This just isn't true!

Volvo Penta uses the Volvo D5 diesel Automotive engine to fulfill their midrange small displacement marine engine line. Volvo Penta the D3. 130hp to 220hp 2.4L turbo charged /after cooled. This is 5 cylinder engine that has had a few different changes though out the years but has always been an automotive engine marinised. Volvo Penta has used Gas powered automotive engines for years too. Only one that was made by Volvo (4 cylinder) the rest were GM blocks.

The D4 and D6 are Diesel engines specifically designed for marine use and designed and built by Volvo Penta .

Having owned a D3 and worked on several others, I have used the Volvo (automotive) parts manual to look up parts that are common to the automotive and marinised engine. I will say it is TRUE.
 
Brian, as the owner of a D4 300, I am curious now about how your comments on longevity would change with that engine - which I understand from you was designed as a marine engine from the ground up?
Thanks very much, Roger, Kingston, ON, Canada
 
The D3 is a dependable reliable engine. Prop it correctly, operate it correctly ( over all average fuel burn 4 gph) maintain the engine per factory recommendations, oil changes every 100 hrs or EVERY 12 MONTHS, antifreeze change EVERY TWO YEARS, Air filter EVERY 12 months, Crankcase filter 100 hrs or EVERY 12 MONTHS, Fuel filters EVERY 12 MONTHS, remove and inspect the alternator and sea water belt EVERY 12 MONTHS ( part of this inspection is the inspection of the belt tensioner. confirm it will move freely if not replace or repair. This is a component that can reduce the longevity of the engine) Replace the sea water pump EVERY 2 YEARS or 200 HRS ( this is a component that can reduce the longevity of the engine. Many times the pump is still functioning but the volume of water movement is reduced. This can cause the engine to operate at higher than design temperatures but not cause a fault warning) Belt replacement EVERY 5 years or 600 hours ( honestly the belts are not that expensive I personally changed my belts every 2 years. I removed them every year and sprayed both belt tensioners with CRC penetrating oil to keep them free moving) TIMING BELT EVERY 8YEARS OR 1400 hours. This is a big one. If the environment in your bilge shows rust on the motor mounts, rust on the fuel pump, signs of corrosion to engine components or if the bilge has ever had sea water for a continuous period of time, poorly ventilated I would not go 8 years without inspection of the timing belt and timing belt adjuster. This is a service inspection that is important. If the adjuster or belt fail there is a very good probability that the engine will be destroyed. KEEP THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT CLEAN WELL VENTILATED AND DRY!!! Inspection of TURBO EVERY 2 YEARS, Clean and inspect all Grounds and bolt on electrical connections EVERY 12 MONTHS.

If the engine is operated correctly and not run hard the internals in this engine will provide designed longevity. The bottom end of this engine is well built. The upper end of the engine design is in my opinion light duty. It is an open deck design ( cylinder walls are not supported by the block at the upper end ) This is common in light duty automotive engines (Gas powered) The design allows for more coolant around the cylinders. Operating the engine at high stress levels or higher operating temperatures can reduce the longevity of this style block. This is not a common design for a diesel engine.

The 150 HP D3 I believe is an engine that will " OUTLIVE" The 200 HP or 220 HP if operated in the 50 % load. That being said if the 200 or 220 are operated at 75 HP 35% load the same longevity will be experienced. The D3 is a good engine used in the right application ( light duty fast planing hulls or semi displacement hulls used to cruise at hull speed. This is my opinion from owning operating a 220 hp for 5 years.

aintmissb":l7zxktsd said:
Brian, as the owner of a D4 300, I am curious now about how your comments on longevity would change with that engine - which I understand from you was designed as a marine engine from the ground up?
Thanks very much, Roger, Kingston, ON, Canada

D4 and D6 Volvo Penta engines are a different design compared to its smaller D3. The D4/D6 engines are much more robust, better oiling system, larger cooling capacity, Much higher torque capabilities, Cast iron block..... The D4 and D6 are still high speed High horsepower engines that develop than 80 hp per liter (300 hp) 71 hp (260 hp) so over propping is still the engines worse enemy. That said if properly propped and maintained I would not hesitate to operate a D4 or D6 at 80% load for extended times and try to keep the overall GPH average 7.5 to 8. FlyMeAway would be 100% right with his post if he was referring to the D4 and D6.

In my opinion the longevity of all D3, D4, D6 should be above average. I do believe the D4 and D6 will greatly exceed the longevity of the D3 if operated in the same conditions. That being said, maintained correctly they should all give many years on trouble free hours on the water.
 
This is interesting and I didn't know it about the D3. I met one of the D4/D6 design engineers at a boat show years ago, and he railed and railed about how Volvo "never" used automotive engines in their marine applications (as compared to competitors, or older diesels using tractor engines). But I'm reading more about the D3 and it does appear to be true.

I stand corrected, though the reliability / dependability point stands 🙂
 
Volvo used a lot of automotive engines and even engines from other manufacturers. There was a big argument within the company as the marine division wanted to design their own engines.

Amazingly, the marine engineers eventually won out and the D4/D6 engines were born. Designed and built from the get go as marine power plants. Engineers don't usually prevail in that situation.
 
All this back and forth is really interesting to hear...to sort of set the stage - Ive owned nothing but volvo cars since 1969 so I have a pretty good feeling of how reliable (very) they are - Yes, they may require more maint than a chevy stovebolt or LS motor - but they are different thats all - dont trash reliability because of more maint. If that was the case nobody would fly 737's right?

Let me give you a idea - I had a old Albin trawler, Westebeke W70 - block came out of a Mazda forklift and Landrover - Marinized by Westebeke . That engine and tranny weighed 1500lbs - 70 hp. Now, Look at a Yanmar - same weight will give you 250 hp turbo intercooled engine. WOW, now how did they do that Hmm?

Yes, there is a price to pay - but that HP is nice... now, in a true displacement hull not so much. Old school heave nickel iron block (red blocks) do last forever - there just not made anymore.. deal with it. D3's are just fine.. do the maint - all will be well
 
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