Warmer water D3 220HP Volvo over heat

[BB marine]

This has been a asked about in threads before here on TugNuts. Operating the engine at higher rpm's and seeing increased coolant temperatures. There are many maintenance items that can contribute to this. If all the boxes are checked and there is still an issue then the reason would be design. I have watched my coolant temperature rise as I have cruised in warmer waters. The Lake Michigan water temperatures are usually in the mid to upper 60's and my High cruise temperatures normally max out at 185F and my WOT will climb to 193F after about 3 to 5 minutes and then stay there. I rarely operate at WOT for more than 5 minutes, then I drop down to 3700 rpm for 5 minutes and then set my high cruise at 3400 to 3450 rpm and the temperature stays at 180F. Has I have cruised further south I have seen this coolant temperature change to higher and higher max temperatures. It has never gone above 203F before until the last week when cruising on the Caloosahathchee Canal 83F surface water temperatures and I went into a soft derate after exceeding 205F when I pushed the throttle to WOT to see burn of some soot after a long with at a lock. ( It should never see more than 185F by Volvo design)
We have been cruising in the south Florida waters since the beginning of February. The water temperatures have been in a gradual increase and I am now seeing water temperatures in the low 80's. I can no longer operate the engine above 3700 rpm without operating close to an overheat.

New impeller, the engine raw water cooling system is flushed every time the boat stays in a marina. (I have a fresh water flush system installed.) This engine has always been operated in fresh water except for this winter. I inspected all hoses, coolers, strainer and thru hull. Every component shows no evidence of this boat being operated in salt water. The thermostat operates at design full open at 201F starts to open right at 176F. Volvo States that the cooling system design will operate efficiently with water temperatures to 86F. Volvo also States the system is designed to have a 1 1/4" thru hull and all plumbing is to be 1 1/4" for adequate cooling. The installed through hull from the Fluid Motion Factory is one inch with several 90 degree fittings used which is also stated in the Volvo installation manual not to do. The fact that Volvo has told Fluid Motion that this install meets all of their requirements says that Volvo needs to figure out why all of these Fluid Motion D3 powered boats tend to run warm in warmer waters. I know many in the PNW have no issues but I also know that many that are operated in the warmer waters have issues. I have talked to many that are experiencing the same issues as I am. I believe their is about 25% reduction in cooling because of the factory install. I have taken several photos of temperature runs , I have used my IR gun to confirm the temperatures reading are accurate. I will be working with Volvo on this when I get back to Chicago and most likely install proper sized plumbing to adiquitly supply the raw water side of the cooling system enough water to function to design. This is an expensive project. Just as the engine compartment ventilation system install was. That paid off.

I was able to maintain a max temperature of 138F while cruising in Florida waters. I proved the systems worth by blocking off my intake vents and not using my exhaust blowers while operating the boat in the keys.( I needed justification for all the work) My compartment temperatures near the engine intake filter were has high as 180F. This is 60F above Volvo' recommendation and 100F degrees above ambient which is 70F above the ABYC recommendations. With the vents opened and blowers on I was able to reduce the temperature by 42F. Still higher then recommended but with in reason. I know many boat owners operate their boats without ever thinking about this or don't know as long as the boat runs. I was in the repair side for many years and realize what damage high engine temperatures can do to the longevity of the engine. Many don't care because they will not own the boat long enough and it will be someone else issue. I personally want the next owner of my boat to have no issues, enjoy the boat and have years of trouble free boating.

I am posting this now and I will post my findings after I make the modifications that match the Volvo recommendations. I am confident that there will be significant cooling improvements to the equipment. I hope this helps other D3 200 and 220 Hp owners that are experiencing above recommended temperature. I know that others have done this and have experienced good results. I will put together a list of all components used and a procedure for the repair to assist others who want to install the recommended thru hull fittings and plumbing. Think of it as a TugNut service bulletin.

 

[Submariner]

I was in the repair side for many years and realize what damage high engine temperatures can do to the longevity of the engine. Many don't care because they will not own the boat long enough and it will be someone else issue. I personally want the next owner of my boat to have no issues, enjoy the boat and have years of trouble free boating.

They say, when you're buying a used boat, it's not just the boat you're buying... you're also buying the previous owner(s) boating mindset (good and bad). I always enjoy reading your write-up's.

 

[Katmat]

Great write up.
Now get back on lake Michigan, water temp. today was 45.9 degrees F.

 

[Someday*]

hmmm...that's a concerning issue.
I wonder if the newer Volvo 320 D4 will have the same issues...we are expecting an August delivery date for a R29 and we will be using it in Florida.

 

[gwishon]

Yes, you are likely to see elevated engine temperatures in Florida, especially in the summertime. We regularly see bay and ICW temps reach 90 degrees and if your cooling system is not kept in good condition you are likely to see engine temps in excess of 200 degrees at higher rpms. Yesterday I saw 199 degrees at WOT in our D4-260 with bay temps between 75-80. This is well within spec, but by August I’ll be keeping a close eye on engine temps and running at reduced rpms if necessary.

Gordon

 

[Someday*]

Is the engine compartment ventilated with blower type fans in the Ranger Tugs? Would those help with this issue?

 

[gwishon]

No blower fans in the Ranger Tugs bilge. BBMarine’s research suggests that forced air ventilation of the engine bay would help, and it probably wouldn’t be a difficult mod as long as you can find an easy way to vent the compartment air. But at my normal cruising rpm of 3300 I’ve never experienced a problem, even in August. Keep the cooling system well maintained and you should be good to go.

Gordon

 

[Someday*]

No blower fans in the Ranger Tugs bilge. BBMarine’s research suggests that forced air ventilation of the engine bay would help, and it probably wouldn’t be a difficult mod as long as you can find an easy way to vent the compartment air. But at my normal cruising rpm of 3300 I’ve never experienced a problem, even in August. Keep the cooling system well maintained and you should be good to go.

Gordon

Thanks Gordon...does the Volvo Diesel have an RPM limiter? around 3600rpm's?

 

[BB marine]

A few notes to my post. The D3 220 has been designed to operate at normal operating temperature with ambient water temperature of 86 F. The thermostat opens at 176 F and is completely open at 201 F . This is the engine coolant temperature range that the engine should be operated at. 176F at the low end and 201 F at the high end. Any temperature above these ranges operating the engine for any length of time will not cause failure but will reduce longevity. The engine will go into alarm and derate at 208F. With a properly sized raw water cooling system including the recommended sized thru hull the engine should be able to operate with maximum sea water temperatures of 86F by design. The Max desired operating temperature would be 185 F at this temperature range the thermostat is working and controlling the engine temperature. When temperatures rise above 201 the thermostat is no longer controlling the engine temperature and the engine is running out of designed temperature. The engine should not be operated out of this range and is protected if it exceeds 207F by derating.

The D4 that Someday and Gorden are speaking of have very similar specifications. 180F thermostat opens and fully open at 198F this posted temperature range is where you want to operate the engine. Temperatures above this do not put the engine into derate but should not be operated at for any length of time.

In Gordons response

Yesterday I saw 199 degrees at WOT in our D4-260 with bay temps between 75-80. This is well within spec, but by August I’ll be keeping a close eye on engine temps and running at reduced rpms if necessary.

In all reality he is hitting Max range @199F with 75 F to 80 F ambient water temperature. The system is designed to operate within its parameters with Max sea water temperatures of 90F (D4 and D6).


To the average boater any operating parameter that does not put the engine into alarm is ok. So if alarm is 208F and the boat owner operates the engine at 207 F everything is good. In short term this is probably correct. In the long term probably not. The biggest problem with a marginal cooling system is there is no room for error. In my case I have a clean raw water system designed to operate in PNW waters with Ambient water temperatures that stay in the mid 50's F. If I operate the boat in warmer waters the operating temperatures increase this is normal. The issue with this install is most D3 owners of 220hp or 200 hp in the PNW see temperatures of 190 to 193F at maximum output with clean maintained raw water systems operating in cool water. I experienced the same when operating in the cool waters of Lake Michigan. If I had a 10% loss in the raw water system and operated in the cool waters I will still be able to operate the engine without going into a derate I may even be able to operate at 20% loss. Now operate that boat in 30 F warmer water. There are no margins!

I was told many years ago while troubleshooting a over heat issue that a properly sized engine seacock is 1 pipe size larger than the raw water pump inlet and outlet ports. Example: if the inlet and outlet ports are 1 inch then I should size the seacock with a 1 1/4" thru hull. This gives a built in margin for error for any raw water system fouling or elevated sea temperatures. The D3 150Hp 200hp and 220hp power plants used in the Fluid Motion models R25, R27 and C26 the inlet and outlet of the pump is 1 1/4". So by normal sizing should be a thru hull sized at 1 1/2" with a sea strainer to match. This sizing would allow for a built in safety factor to allow proper cooling while operating in warmer seawater or partially fouled cooling system.Volvo Penta has a minimum requirement of 1 1/4" thru hull size for the D3 models .

The install I have in my C26 and the install I have seen in other models R27 and R25 is a 1" thru hull with a 1" inlet to the strainer and three outlet fittings of 1" pipe to a 1 1/4" barb fitting, 3/4" fitting and a 1/2 fitting all on the outlet side of the strainer. The design is supplying raw water to feed a 1 1/4" engine seawater pump, 1/2" head water supply and a 3/4" wash down pump from a 1" thru hull. The results of this undersized thru hull is a compromised raw water cooling system for the D3 power plant. The issue that I can't understand is why this system approved by Volvo Penta. The next question I have is why would an experienced marine designer the Livingston family. Designers of many products in the marine industry under size a power plant thru hull?

The D4 Volvo used in the R29 has a thru hull minimum requirement of 1 1/2 " pipe based on the Volvo installation specifications. and the D6 is 2 " minimum pipe. I can't answer your question Someday. I don't know what thru hull sizing Fluid Motion is using on the R29 but I do know 28' Cutwater owners with D4's that see over 200 F when operating above 3200 rpm in in 75 F to 80F degree water temperatures.

There are plenty of Fluid motion Rangers and Cutwaters cruising Florida waters and there have been very little or no comments about this so I would say you will be fine. like I said, to the average boater if it is not in alarm run it. I was told by a Volvo engineer "we designed our engines to be run to the upper limits". I have also been told by the technicians that work on them in the field not to operate them to the limits if you want them to last. It just depends who you believe or if you really even care.

On a positive note Someday congratulations on the new boat Purchase. The R29 is an awesome boat. I have cruised onboard Gordons R29 and it performs well. You made a good choice. Perfect boat for cruising the Florida waters.

 

[gwishon]

I don’t know if the D4 has a rev limiter. RPM’s on a boat motor are typically limited by several operating factors including weight/loading, prop design and pitch, drag, etc, etc. The D4-260 in my R29 will reach its rated 3500 rpms at WOT depending on these factors. The D4-320 is rated at 3600rpms.

For the record, I flush the cooling system each year with Barnacle Buster. The boat is kept on a lift with open seacocks, so seawater is drained from the system after each use.

Gordon

 

[Someday*]

Thanks Brian and Gordon....I guess I’ll see how it goes. I don’t plan on running the engine at WOT except when they recommended you do to keep everything working (turbo etc) and when I need to avoid weather etc.

Plan is to have on a lift behind house so can flush the salt water out like you mentioned Gordon.

Fingers crossed.

 

[BB marine]

Thanks Gordon...does the Volvo Diesel have an RPM limiter? around 3600rpm's

All diesels have a overspeed limiter. On the common rail diesels this is accomplished in the ECM. The D3 has a electronic governor set for 1500 rpm in Neutral and 4160 rpm +/- for max output under load. The D4 260 hp has an electronic governor set for 1500 rpm in neutral and 3630 rpm +/- for max output under a load. The D4 320 Hp having a 100 rpm higher 3600 rpm will still have the 1500 rpm neutral and a max rpm set electronic governor. I don't know the spec for the 320hp D4 but I would assume it to be 150 rpm above Max rated rpm of 3600 rpm.

The important numbers you need to record during your delivery are

*Set idle rpm
*WOT rpm range recommended 3700 rpm to 3600 rpm It is not recommended to operate below 3500 rpm as a WOT .The Max *cruise for this engine is 10% below Max rpm. If properly propped that would be 3240 rpm (90% of Max rpm)
* Record Boost pressures at different rpms so you have a base line
* Record operating temperatures at different RPMs for base line
* Record fuel burns at different RPMs for base line

Having the base line as found new boat numbers will help you know when there are issues of bottom fouling, turbo issues, over propping when loaded, fouled cooling system or worn impeller.


I believe flushing after each use if the boat is not to be used for a number of days is a good preventative maintenance item. This is in many cases not achievable but if it is it will help reduce cooling system fouling. When the boat is lifted the seawater does not drain from the system. The strainer drains but the seawater remains in the after cooler, exchanger and all hoses. The only way to remove this is to completely drain the system or flush with fresh water. Draining the system without flushing is not advisable. This leaves all the salt deposit residue to remain and dry and cause build up. The best preventative is to either flush with fresh water and let it sit or run the engine in salt water often so the critters and salt deposits do not collect and foul the system. Once you have a flushing system or method it is a 5 minute process to flush the raw water system. When the boat is going to be on the hard for a while I perform a salt-away flush then a full rinse. This insures a clean cooling system.

With preventative maintenance I still have issues with high temperatures in warmer water. This leads me to believe the cooling water supply is limited because of the undersized thru hull pick-up.

 

[gwishon]

Thanks, Brian! Good advice, as always.

Gordon

 

[snydzy]

. This leads me to believe the cooling water supply is limited because of the undersized thru hull pick-up.

I have the same cooling arrangement with a 1” inlet into the sea strainer, transitioning to the 1.25” line that feeds the water pump. Questions: Isn’t the capacity of the belt driven pump a direct relationship to rpm as well as the water flow capacity of the pipe size? Don’t you also need to account for water pressure, material friction and more?(salt water is denser than pure water) The pump operating at 3600 rpm is going to need more flow than the pump operating at 2200 rpm, so naturally it will need more volume at the higher rpm. What is the required volume of the pump? The inlet is also on the suction side of the pump....As on any fluid system, suction results in negative pressure, aka vacuum. The higher the suction force, the higher the vacuum and this would create some inlet velocity with lots of negative pressure in the sea strainer. Could this be measured?.....Can 1” inlet supply that? A 1” i.d. pipe has the capacity to deliver 24 gal/min. Perhaps the pump is /is not capable of providing that volume at a given rpm. I don’t know, but I wouldn’t assume that the setup Fluid Motion is inadequate based on pipe size alone. I have not seen temperatures exceeding 185° on my VP150

 

[dclagett]

Syndzy,

On my VP150 I just need to look at the hose going from the oil cooler to the raw water pump to see if there is any restriction in the water flow ingestion. That hose is very soft and if there is any restriction the hose will collapse. I did not know about this when I first obtained the boat, however with the problems I had with overheating I changed the water inlet to 1.25 inches and installed a wedge water strainer instead of the clam strainer. I don’t know if prior to my modifications that the hose collapsed when at higher engine rpm, but now it does not.

 

[BB marine]

A 1” i.d. pipe has the capacity to deliver 24 gal/min. Perhaps the pump is /is not capable of providing that volume at a given rpm. I don’t know, but I wouldn’t assume that the setup Fluid Motion is inadequate based on pipe size alone. I have not seen temperatures exceeding 185° on my VP150

The RPM of the engine does change the flow rates by design and by design these increased flow rates are needed because the faster the engine runs, more HP is generated, more heat is generated by the engine so more raw water flow is required to heat sync. Below are the designed flow rates of the raw water pump installed in the D3 Volvo Penta engine based on engine rpm.

700 rpm 7.48 GPM @2.8psi
1200 rpm 11.97 GPM @ 3.8 psi
1600 rpm 16.46 GPM @5.2 psi
2000 rpm 20.20 GPM @7.0 psi
2400 rpm 23.94 GPM @9 psi
2800 rpm 26.93 GPM @11.2 psi
3200 rpm 30.67 GPM @13.5 psi
3600 rpm 32.91 GPM @15.8 psi
4000 rpm 35.91 GPM @18.1 PSI
4130 rpm 36.5 GPM @18.9 psi

The flow though a 1" ID pipe at 20 psi flow with no fittings is average 26 GPM. The flow through a 1 1/4 " ID pipe at 20 psi flow with no fittings is average 47 GPM.
Each 90 degree fitting will reduce the flow.
The actual flow rates will be slightly lower because I used an average 20 psi which the max pressure rating output of the pump is not that high.

The 150 HP D3 is close to compliant. If the pressure was at 20 psi. The 200 hp and 220 hp in order to provide proper cooling are reliant on cold ambient water temperatures to help maintain reasonable operating temperatures at higher rpm operating ranges. The design is to maintain proper cooling with Ambient water temperature of 86 F degrees. The reduction of water flow caused by reduced through hull diameter and additional plumbing fittings installed .My opinion it is not possible with the 1" diameter thru hull to provide proper flow to keep the cooling system within design requirements. I'm not sure why Volvo Penta approved this install. My thoughts are when sea trials were done the engine cooling requirements were met because of the lower ambient water temperatures found in the PNW.

In my thoughts, I feel that during the sea trial consideration of temperatures (ambient air and water present during sea trial) If the as found operating temperatures are at design that would raise a red flag. What happens when we operate this boat and engine in 30F degrees warmer water and air temperature ? The boats are sold and operated in warmer climates too. I have the Fluid Motion Sea trial of the C26 with a 200 hp D3 Volvo. The ambient air temperatures and water temperatures recorded during the sea trial. (water temperature 51 F degrees )and (air temperature of 55 F degrees). At full throttle the engine temperature operating temperature was 186F degrees and the engine compartment temperature recorded was 116 F degrees. The Sea trial coolant temperture rose to a level of 186 F which is design but the ambient water temperature the day of the sea trial was 35 F colder than the max allowable of 86F. The engine compartment recorded air temperature front section was 116 F degrees . Top section 116 F degrees and inlet was 116 F degrees which is 3 F higher than recommended and 61 F above ambient. Volvo installation manual states max 113 F degrees for intake and no higher than 30 F above ambient. Yet Volvo signed off on this sea trial.

Does the install work? The answer is yes most of the time. Is this what I would expect from a manufacture of high quality ?(Fluid and Motion and Volvo Penta )approve and except. No! I did not when I purchased the boat. Both companies in my opinion are top notch. Sometimes design issues slip though the cracks and as long as there are no major failures because of design the issues can be over looked. I believe that is what happened. It doesn't seem that this has caused many Tug or Cut owners issues.

After owning the boat and operating it for 5 years I anticipated this issue but did not fully experience it until this year. I'm glad I followed through with the ventilation and now the raw water system will be addressed. It is disappointing and unfortunate but not fixable. I will be looking at my options soon and will post when completed.

 

[CaptT]

I had higher Temps on my D4 260 this year, especially going and coming from the Keys, but it was always due to the unusual amount of sea grass this year clogging up the intake basket. Nothing like having to shut down in 3-5 foot Seas and cleaning out your intake basket! I just ordered a second basket to make it quicker and easier to change out in a hurry.

 

[Someday*]

I had higher Temps on my D4 260 this year, especially going and coming from the Keys, but it was always due to the unusual amount of sea grass this year clogging up the intake basket. Nothing like having to shut down in 3-5 foot Seas and cleaning out your intake basket! I just ordered a second basket to make it quicker and easier to change out in a hurry.

CaptT...have you had any problems with engine temps in the past in our area?(besides the clogged strainer above) (I'm in FM) I have to admit this issue is really concerning me as we will be doing our cruising in SW FL/keys mainly...we put our 2nd deposit on our 2022R29 on May 21st.

I'd hate to find out that the boat is really geared for the PNW areas with colder water/air temps and find I can't run it other than slow speed here in FL. thx

 

[CaptT]

Someday,

No I haven't had any overheating issues besides the seagrass and a few barnacles attached to the intake screen. Now that the boat is stored on a trailer the barnacles became a non- issue. I can run the boat WOT and it never climbs above 185, even in August on Tampa Bay and you know how warm that water can get.
I did install the intake and exhaust alarm system Brian talked about in his posts and it has been an excellent addition! When the seagrass blocked the intake flow I knew about it a few seconds before the temp went up. I believe it was between $200 to $300 total but we'll worth the investment! Thanks Brian!
I've also added a wash down system, for the anchor, and a fan to the stateroom all based on Brian's excellent posts! If he doesn't stop posting all of these great ideas I'll never get done improving the boat! : :lol:
Really Brian..thank you for the great suggestions and the excellent descriptions and especially the photos!
Someday,
you'll be cruising some beautiful water and my only suggestion is watch out for the seagrass and think about adding a rope cutter to your prop shaft! The crab and lobster traps are everywhere! That is my next addition to the boat. Good luck with your new Boat! I have to admit, I'm jealous.

 

[Someday*]

Thanks CaptT....good tip on the prop shaft rope cutter...I have already been thinking the gear i'd need to go over the side to clear the propeller if/when that happens....that addition would be really nice if they work as advertised.