Water Flush issues

I'll second what RProffer said about water in the engine, but only because he said it first. I was about to say the same.

The real danger in getting water in the exhaust port is that it will run past one or more exhaust valves, into the cylinders, in quantities sufficient to cause "hydraulic lock". That is when there is more water in the cylinder than the available space between the piston and the head when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke. The starter then tries to push the piston into the incompressible liquid and the general result is a bent connecting rod. And, as the term says, a "lock". If your engine ran, the problem did not exist.

It is possible you had water in the exhaust system but in insufficient quantity to fill the combustion chamber volume and break things. Providence is sometimes most kind. In that event, running the engine has surely cleared up that condition also.

For this particular incident, the potential danger would be if you had not run the engine, in which case the water could still be lurking in there. If in sufficient quantity, it could then break things. In small quantities, it could cause rust on valves, cylinders and heads. In effect, you got away with it this time, but prudence would dictate that if you fear you have injected water into the exhaust manifold that you not try a start without making further checks. That's where the mechanic would have come in if you are not confident in your mechanical skills to check the engine.

The cautions about connecting the hose directly and pressurizing the system are accurate. Feeding the water via a reservoir (e.g. a bucket) and with the water level in that well below the level of the exhaust elbow is a much safer procedure.

Save the mechanic's fees for diesel fuel (and a nice big bucket).

By the way, never run the prop when on the hard. The water seepage into the stuffing box is what lubricates and cools the packing in the shaft log. Running it dry will generally ruin the packing and can score the shaft. If I were you I would just check the packing gland for maybe 8 or 10 drops a minute the next time you have her in the water and are running at a moderate cruising speed. Check it while still in easy reach of your launch site so if you do have a serious leak you can get back to the trailer fairly soon. It will take a great deal of leakng to scuttle her, and the bilge pump is your friend even if the packing is leaking at a serious rate.
 
Thank you 'Slackwaterjack'.
Your description of the 'Packing Glad' being like a faucet really helped. I can get my head around it now. I will look at buying one of those spanners (wrenches)

I will look for some diesel stabiliser 'Prig D' at the auto shop today. I will need to fill the tank up though as you suggest.

I reckon keeping the batteries charged up is way easier than starting the boat up every month. I am so glad that you suggested that.
🙂
 
Rick,
Thank you so much for the links to the manuals. I spent ages last night trying to track the service manual down and never could find it.
I will plow through the 300 pages in the next few days/weeks/months........ 😉
 
To 'abcandjrc'.
Your explanation was wonderful. I agree that providence shined on us.....going by what you said we probably should not have tried to start it. Knowing what I know now, I would not have done so but our Coast Guard friend, who was on the phone, with us told us too. I am just glad we did not break our 'rods'.

I havn't run the prop on dry land but that is just because I never thought to. If you hadn't have mentioned it I am sure I would have just done it to see if spins so I am glad you explained why we shouldn't.

My thought is that the water we did force in, released itself out of the gland by the prop shaft so did not go into the engine as far as it might of. That is my rudimentary theory.....

I am so glad I am starting to understand diesel engines a little. I never knew that mashing air could cause fuel to explode :shock: Super idea 😛
 
Ana, If you go after the wrench for the packing nut you will need two. One to hold the gland nut and one to loosen the lock nut. If this has nut been done in a long time it is a bear to break the lock nut loose. There is not a lot of room to work there. I have found that a center punch and hammer is by far the easiest way to do it. If you have a mechanic friend close by get him to explain this proceedure to you. I have drilled small indentures for the punch to rest in and stay in place when tapped with the hammer. This shock breaks it loose fast. I have used a little anti-sieze coumpound on the threads after that and broken it loose about every 3 months so it is not so hard to do. Keeping the gland right is really an easy job once you get past the first time. If you are lucky maybe the prior owner has kept it in good shape.
 
If enough water got into the engine to damage it you would not be able to properly start it. The engine would crank a little bit then stop. Water doesn't compress so if enough gets into the cylinders the pistons get to a point where they can't move. If you try to force them, piston rings, connecting rods, etc. can be damaged. Water in the cylinder doesn't necessarily mean you have damaged your engine but you do need to take the right steps to make sure damage doesn't occur.

Since your engine started just fine I would suspect there is no real damage to the engine itself.
 
One thing I might add. You are welcome to call me about your Ranger Tug at anytime. I can walk you through just about anything as its sometimes hard to get a grasp of whats happening over chat. We are here for you Monday-Friday at 253-839-5213.
 
Andi and I visited Gene and his tug on lake Lanier. It was wonderful!
He walked us through every aspect of the boat. He explained every bit of the engine and let us ask questions (even stupid ones like what's that round thing?)
He showed us the prop shaft and packing nut thingy.
His boat is a Ranger 21 but newer than ours so the diesel tank is at the rear where as ours is next to the engine. His controls were different to.

We went our for a ride and he showed us the whole start up and docking/shutting down procedure We took notes but he sent us a wonderful check list the day after. He even recommended what GPS to get (we hadn't got one yet) and even found where it was on sale!

Gene is a real bless and so sweet to give up his afternoon to help two strangers out.

We go down to St Marys this weekend and will apply our new found knowledge. We have a punch list of things to do on the boat so it will be a busy Thanksgiving......
 
Andrew Custis":eyz0oavg said:
One thing I might add. You are welcome to call me about your Ranger Tug at anytime. I can walk you through just about anything as its sometimes hard to get a grasp of whats happening over chat. We are here for you Monday-Friday at 253-839-5213.
Thanks Andrew. I have put your number in my phone.......just incase.....
 
After a couple of time out, you will be an old hat. With docking, remember, slow and easy, and it will become natural. Enjoy your Tug-A-Lug and have a Happy Thanksgiving.
 
Visiting with Ana and Andi was great fun. They brought up something that has been nagging at me. I'm all for instant gratification, so I can't wait for Ana and Andi to check out their tug and get back to me with info. Ana says there are clam shell fittings on openings on both sides of the keel just forward of the prop. She also said her cutlass bearing is a roller bearing.

For you folks with the R21s that are pre-R21EC, are those ports for the raw water intake? If so, is the raw water thru hull fitting in that area?

If that area is the raw water intake chamber then it could help explain why Ana saw pressurized water coming thru the cutlass bearing. The city water from her hose would have gone into the raw water cooling system and also back thru the raw water intake hose and out around the prop shaft and thru those openings.

Gene
 
Gene, those ports are NOT the raw water intake for engine cooling. The intake for the engine cooling is lower and more forward on the keel, similar looking. The only thing I can figure out about the ones by the prop shaft is that they may cool the bearings? But do not get me to lying...grins. Let me see if I have some pictures. The strap on my lift blocks the view from the side.
 
I cannot get a good picture, but I did look to refresh my memory. The raw water intake is on the port side about 4.5 feet forward of the prop. low on the keel. Just above this point is the sea cock located in the bilge. Hard to see because of the fuel tank.
 
So, I am down in St Marys by my tug and I examined her all over.

Here are the openings:
1. I have two clam shaped vents on the keel about 12" back from where the propeller exits the keel. There are holes in the keel behind these two vents.....Raw water inlet?
2. I have a small white hole about 5' from the rear of the boat. The hole is threaded so I assume that is the drain plug hole.
3. On the starboard side I have a white hole about 1" diameter. If you sat on the back bench seat on the starboard side, your knee would be right beside it. Attached to that hole is a white hose that loops up (backflow prevention) and then goes under the raised step by the rear seat. I reckon this is the bilge pump exit.

Here is what other things I have discovered:
4. My prop shaft exits the keel by what looks like an enclosed bearing (not open as I mentioned to Gene).
5. I have a round access panel under the rear seat and that gives you access from the top to the rudder turning gear.
6. My bilge pump is handily located (not) under the fuel tank and batteries and has a white hose coming out of it (see 3).
7. My bilge pump has an on/auto/off rocker switch located in the cabin by the battery knob under the seat. It has only 2 positions not 3 as suggested by the tag on it.

Here is what I have not discovered:
8. Shut off valve for raw water.Is that called the 'Kingston Cock'? On Gene's boat there was a round access hatch in the deck just by the door to the cabin where his was located. I don't have one. His raw water came in on the port side up near his cabin. Mine comes in near the prop so I guess it is some where under the engine or fuel tank?
9. Worst of all........I have not discovered the Ranger 21 owners manual. Not the Service manual but the one that would come with the boat that would tell you about your boat. I thought we had one but we just had a folder full of leaflets from the radio to the Thetford toilet.

Off in now celebrate Thanksgiving. I am glad the Mayflower did not have me as its Captain or else it would be the 'May-not-flower'! 😀
 
Found the Kingston cock.....it is under the batteries. Unlike Genes boat, our has the batteries in line with the engine. So it goes engine-fuel tank-batteries. All of which is under the big engine cover box.
I lifted one battery and half lifted the other. I could only move them about 6" as the wires were holding them in. Andi lifted the tray underneath them and saw the stop cock.
I cannot imagine doing this every time you stop as the engine manual states!

What do other Ranger 21 1900's owners do?
What stops the water from coming in there when you are anchored?

I am sorry to pepper you all (y'all?)with questions again but when you are stuffed with turkey and need a conundrum to titilate your brain.....here it is! :lol:
 
What year is your R-21?..Mine is an '05 and looking at the first album in the photos section there's a '95 for sale that seems to have a picture of those mystery vents on the keel...mine doesn't have them. I recommend you take some pictures of the areas in question and start an album (it's easy to do). That way we can be a lot more confident when we give you our 2 cents worth.

As for improving access to the bilge...
I moved the fuel tank to the stern locker and moved the batteries to where the fuel tank was...now the depth transducer, seacock, bilge pump and packing are all very easily accessable. The tank/battery move was easy to do and I keep my tool boxes and spares where the batteries used to be. There is really no loss of storage. and the toolboxes are easy to lift out for access.
TuggerToy and I did the same modification at the same time. His album has better pics than mine (my album just has pics of the test fitting, but his album has good pics of the finished job).


By the way... I've never owned a boat that had a "boat" manual, only manuals for all (well, most) of the stuff on the boat from auto pilot to zincs.
 
Andrew (m/b other Ranger staff contributed also) prepared an online owners' manual for the R21EC. Don't know about their other tugs.

Ana, outside water will follow tubes/hoses that are open to the water until it reaches the level of the water outside. Then it stops. So, one can leave the seacock (part of the thru hull fitting) open. But, one will have a serious problem when a seacock is open if a tube/hose should slip off a fitting or develop a leak below the level of the outside water. 😱 I'm at a complete loss to try and offer an explanation for the pressurized water coming from around your prop shaft. But, I still recommend you static check the stuffing box for leaking when you launch the boat again. Remember to keep the trailer under the boat, you may have to pull it back out quickly if the stufffing box leaks badly.

I recall dropping by to help a friend when he bought a new boat. He launched it from the trailer, moved it to the dock and began working on it. Unfortunately, one of the holes he drilled in the daggerboard trunk (it was a trailable sailboat) was below the waterline. 😱 We were working above deck before the leak was discovered. We were frantic trying to get the trailer reconnected to the tow vehicle, get it back in the water and get the boat out. 🙁 🙂

Gene
 
Jack....thank you so much for the link to those photos. They really helped. We had a marine electrician over and have decided to move the batteries to the rear so that we can have free and easy access to the 'packing gland', the raw water stop valve and the bilge pump.

When that is done we can do as Gene recommends and put the tug in the water still on the trailer and actually see if the gland drips the usual 8 drips a min. If we don't move the batteries there is no way of seeing it.

Thanks for all your advice guys. It has been so so helpful. I never would have looked for my gland or stop valve if Gene hadn't showed us his and explained what they do and why they are important. Thanks again Gene... 😀
 
Hi Ana,

Just wanted to add my two cents since you have made the decision to move the batteries.

On Tugger Toy the previous owner had the same good idea of moving the batteries to the rear storage compartment to provide better access to the stuffing box (packing gland) and the bilge pump. He chose to move the batteries to the port side of the storage area which provided easy access to the batteries but really consumed a large part of the usable storage in the stern compartment. Here is a picture of that installation:

2408311370103986688S425x425Q85.jpg


After meeting up with SlackwaterJack (Alex) here on TugNuts we had several discussions on this subject. I had been thinking of moving the batteries over to the starboard side of the stern compartment into the somewhat unusable storage space created by the exhaust hose and bilge pump discharge hose. For reasons that we don't need to go into here (although increased storage was the overall goal) those discussions lead us to the final decision to move our fuel tanks from under the hood to the starboard side of the aft compartment and in my case to move the batteries back under the hood. As Alex was dealing with the original factory setup on his boat the batteries were still under the hood.

Here is a picture of the platform I made to support the fuel tank on the starboard side:

2174746670103986688S425x425Q85.jpg


If the setup on your boat is similar I would suggest moving the batteries to the starboard side. You will likely be running maintenance free batteries so the only time you will need to get to them is when they die or at the end of the season, if you decide to store them off of the boat for the winter.

As SlackwaterJack mentioned in one of his earlier posts there are some pretty good pics of the fuel tank refit in my album under "Mods".

PM me if I can be of any further assistance.

Eric
 
Thanks Eric,
I checked out all of you photos on your link. They were very informative and I even showed them to the electriacal engineer. They helped us to decided to move just the batteries and to move them to the starboard side (as per your suggestion).
We can't really move the fuel tank as it is not a standard tank. The last owner had a metal one made. It is square and slightly larger than the regular one and we don't think it will work back there. Anyway, we are only trying to gain access to our 'stuffing box'.
Thanks...you photos are what convinced us to go ahead and move the batteries....
 
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