Went Completely Dead in the Water

M

markm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
158
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C (Sterndrive)
Vessel Name
Mark Twain
I got 100 yards from the pier and I went dead. My R-21 just died. It has power and fuel. It was going along fine and then it sputtered once and died. I have a twenty hp Yanmar and have never had a problem. I am thinking fuel line or filter here. Has this happened to anyone before?

Mark
 
Hi Mark,

Give us a little more info. What year is your R-21? How many hours on the Yanmar? Do you have more than one filter in the fuel system or just the one mounted on the engine? Is there a shut off valve in the fuel line? Has the filter ever been changed? Did you recently fill the tank with diesel? If there is anything else that you think might be pertinent let us know.

Eric
 
Is the seacock open? Is the sea strainer clear? Do you have plenty of coolant? Over heating can shut you down real quick.
 
My R-21 is a 1995. I have a 20 hp Yanmar. It has one fuel filter and it is less than a year old, located on the top of the engine. I do not believe it has a shut off valve. At least I think is doesn't? The fuel tank is 3/4 full and not re-filled recently. I was out last week and it ran great. After it died I tried 20 times to turn it over, it acted like it was going to roll over (it came close) and would die again. I tried this over an hours time. One other thing I noticed was the reservoir for the engine coolant was dry?

Thanks for the advice.

Mark
 
A 1995 or a 2005? Did you get that electrical problem solved?



One easy to do ( but simple to fix) reason for the engine stopping could be the fuel tank vent (on top of the filler cap) on the tank. If it was left closed, the vaccuum that builds up in the tank can overcome the engine's fuel pump. It would take a while, possibly enough time to start, idle and leave the dock. After causing the engine to quit, the now vaccuum loaded fuel system would try to draw air into the fuel lines and will find the tiniest leak to air lock the injectors on you. So the first thing I'd do is check the fuel cap vent then see if it'll start. If not, then use the manual fuel pump to bleed the fuel lines (you may need to loosen # 1 and #3 injector a 1/4 turn and watch for air bubbles. sorta like bleeding brakes on a car. I really hope its a simple as that. OOps, you said you have the 20 hp so loosen # 2 (2 cyl).

I'm fairly certain that the overheat alarm would have sounded if the reason for the engine stoppage was due to a lack of coolant.(the scary thing about the coolant missing is ...where did it go?) When was the last time you topped it off?
 
If the engine coolant was dry, then you definitely overheated. Hopefully, the engine detected the overheat and shut down without any damage. Check the engine oil and see if it is the normal color.

If it is milky white (or yellow brownish) and possibly foamy, then you have big problems. At a minimum a blown seal. At worst, a blown engine. Call your mechanic.

If the engine oil looks okay, fill the coolant, and try starting the engine. If it starts okay, look for leaks (oil and coolant) and monitor the coolant level. If you have a water temperature gauge, monitor the temperature. After it runs a while, shut it down and recheck the oil to ensure it still looks okay. If it does look okay, you probably lucked out.
 
Sorry, it is a 2005.

Mark
 
Also, check the impeller. They are fragile and can become damaged if the engine overheats.
 
Please don't laugh, where is the engine impeller, and how do I check it?

Mark
 
hi Mark,
we have different engines (mine's a 3YM30) but it should be on the front lower left. it's a small round assembly with a pulley on the back of it and a round flat cover plate on the front. The cover is held on by 6 small screws. remove the screws and the plate to expose the impellor. the impellor is a small rubber star(ish) shaped thing that can be carefully pried out. if you haven't changed one since you bought the boat it's probably shot. Look for split or missing vanes

I don't think it's the reason you stalled and won't start (mainly because you didn't say anything about alarms going off before she quit). But, if it's as old as I think it may be, it should be changed. Call Ranger for the part (also order a spare) or maybe check West Marine (by Home Depot on Sprague in Spokane) they may have one. Bring the old one to match up. While you're at it you may want to change the belt as well. You'll probably need to remove the alternator belt to change the waterpump belt, so check it's condition as well.

A note about working on Yanmars...they like to use at least one of every size fastener, so have plenty of wrenches available (metric)
 
Hi Mark,

Something else to consider. You complained last week of unexplained electrical problems, including some issues with the instrument panel. If there is a generalized short in the system it may be activating the "stop solenoid" which is the electro-mechanical device that cuts off the fuel supply to the engine in order to shut it down. Normally this solenoid is only activated when you push the "Stop" button on the panel next to the ignition switch. If the electrical gremlins are at work here, it may be that the fuel supply is being cut off by this solenoid even though you are not actively pushing the button.

Eric
 
This mystery is going to drive me crazy. I was wondering if the electrical gremlins are at work here. I'll check out and report.

Mark

:shock:
 
Ok, here's a question...does pushing the "stop button" send power to, or cut power to, the engine stop solenoid?

On my '05 R-21...Once started, the 3ym30 will continue to run normally with the ignition key switch in the "off" position and with the key removed (guages and buzzers and stop button don't work. so that neans NO juice=no solenoid function). The stop button will only shut off the engine with the key in the "run" position (guages and buzzers working meaning juice is needed to activate the shut off solenoid).

So, by my logic ,,, if the power wires to the stop solenoid are disconnected and the engine will then start and run...the problem is probably the stop switch (shorting,ie stuck in the "on" position and sending juice TO the solenoid when it shouldn't be?) or maybe a stuck solenoid (Tap it with a hammer?) Here's a big "what if" though....wouldn't a stuck stop solenoid kill the battery(s)?

I may or may not have the logic correct ( logic skills aren't exactly the sharpest blades in my toolshed).
If there's anyone that can set me straight , please junp in here

One thing I do know... If a marine engine is cranked too much you can run the risk of water-locking the engine.
keep an eye on the water in the muffler and drain excess water or you could have a major engine problem. Some boats are more prone to this, it depends on how the engine is placed relative to the waterline.
 
Hi Mark & SlackwaterJack (Alex),

Alex got me thinking more about this, so I dug out my copy of Nigel Calder's "Marine Diesel Engines, Maintenance, Troubleshooting, and Repair, Second Edition". If fellow Tugnut's don't own a copy of this book, go find one. Nigel Calder, if you don't know, is the guru of diesel mechanics and does a great job of relaying his vast knowledge in the field in a way that the average person can fully comprehend.

Anyway, In the section on troubleshooting, under "Failure to Start" on page 57, this is what Nigel has to say about the solenoid valve "Many newer newer engines have a solenoid operated fuel shutdown valve which is held in the closed position by a spring when the ignition is turned off. When the ignition is turned on, it energizes a magnet, which opens the valve. Any time the electrical supply to the solenoid is interrupted, the magnet is de-energized and the spring closes the valve. Any failure in the electrical system will automatically shut off the fuel supply to the engine."

So the electrical gremlins could still be the suspect in a potential fuel system issue, but that doesn't answer your cooling system mystery.

It just might be time to have a qualified mechanic check over the both the electrical system and the motor, it seems like this is getting rather complicated.

Eric
 
I went through something like this with my 2010 R21. Turned out I had a algea problem that had plugged the fuel pick up line from the tank. I found clumps of crap drifting around in the bottom of the tank. They would catch the end of the pick up line and starve the engine of fuel. I cleaned out the tank, changed fuel filters and away I went.

Dave
 
It's rainining here in Spokane, so I can't get the boat until this weekend. I'll add the fuel tank and lines to the inspection list. This is going to be a wrench turning weekend it looks like. Thanks for all the advice. I shuffle paper for a living, I am not the mechanical type, but I need to be here.

Mark

:shock:
 
I do not have experience with the Ranger at all as I am here to 'learn' more about them for a future purchase. I do, however, have experience with small diesels in sailboats.

The first year I owned my present boat I had trouble with intermittant stalls with a Yanmar 1GM10. The engine ran fine and would simply die and not restart for several days. It turned out to be the lift pump for the fuel system. Even with the tank above the engine that little lift pump was the cause of my issue.

Good luck!

Dan
 
Okay after a whole lot of research I have discovered a few things. The place where I was taking my boat for maintenance (which went out of business), did not change the fuel filter as they had charged me for. The original gray one is still installed. A few people have suggested that my engine is fuel starved. They suggest I change the fuel filter. I have one, but have never performed this task. Could anyone offer advice on how to this properly and bleed the fuel lines of air. Thanks

Mark
 
Hi Mark,

I was wondering about you and your tug.

If your reference to the fuel filter is in regards to the filter that is mounted on the forward starboard side of the engine, then that is the factory installed filter and the fact that it is still gray does not necessarily mean that the filter has not been changed. The gray part that you see is just the fuel filter bowl that must be removed to expose the pleated paper filter element that is installed inside.

If you are referring to a filter located anywhere else on the engine or under the hood, then it was added by a previous owner and a picture of it would be helpful.

If you are changing the factory fuel filter, remove the filter bowl assembly with a strap wrench or a large pair of channel lock pliers, padded by a rag if you don't want to mar the paint on the filter bowl. Be careful not to lose the the rubber o-ring that seals the bowl to the filter mount when you unscrew the bowl. Remove the old paper element contained inside and dump out any of the diesel fuel in the bowl to be disposed of properly. Wipe the inside of the bowl clean with a lint free rag and install the new paper element. If the o-ring that came off with the filter bowl looks OK then you can probably reuse it but if in doubt replace it with a new one. Before screwing the bowl back on to the mount, fill the bowl as close to the brim as possible with some fresh diesel fuel. Then, trying not spill diesel all over the place, screw it back on to the filter mount. By doing this you are almost assured of not having to bleed any air from the fuel system. You should now be able to start the engine. It may stumble a bit but any small amount of air should pass through the system and the engine should pick up and run normally after a few seconds.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Eric
 
After several month of trying to figure out my fuel problem, I finally gave in and took my R-21 to a professional boat shop.

They found red plastic clogging the fuel at the engine. The plastic is the same red plastic that the tank is made out of. These red shavings have been sitting at the botton of my tank for five years, and they finally made there way to the engine and clogged up the works. This drove me crazy for over two months.

The shop recommended that I still an "in-line" fuel filter, between the tank and the engine. Has anyone ever installed such an item.

Thanks to Slackwater Jack and the many others that offered advice.

Mark 😀
 
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