Windlass runs on its own!

[LET IT BE]

My 2013 R29 has been out of the water for over a month and was not plugged in to "shore power while I was away.
When I got back to check it I noticed the house battery bank was flat despite having the solar panel. I hoped it would keep the batteries charged. Voltage at the 3 position voltmeter showed as low as the gage can read (8 volts) engine and thruster voltages ( position 2 and 3 on the voltmeter were both 13volts approx) I measured voltages directly at each of the 4 house batteries and they were all dead flat. For the first time I had ever used the parallel switch since I bought the boat two years ago I turned it on to see if the voltage at the voltmeter would show good voltage which it did. This is the crazy part. As soon
As the parallel switch was turned on the windlass started to run ( in the down direction) and stopped as soon as the switch was turned off. Neither the foot switches or helm switches were on and I was in the port side lazzerette operating the parallel switch. The only way to stop the windlass was to turn off the breaker switch in the forward cupboard below the helm.
Now I don't know if whatever triggered the windlass to run caused the batteries to run flat or some how this is a result of the batteries going flat for another reason because I was not around to see what happened. I think though that the windlass was not running long enough to flatten the batteries because the chain would have been in a big pile up on the deck.
I believe the batteries are original and perhaps at the end of their life???
I see the windlass has a relay near the circuit breaker and wonder if some how some stray current activates that relay when the parallel switch tries to equalize the battery voltage when the house bank is dead flat?
Another question I have is how do I know if either the battery charger or the solar panels are actually trying to charge the house batteries? I suspect the charger is not because when I plug in to 120 the charger light shows yellow indicating it's charging but it does not start to run its cooling fan as it did when I first got the boat and the charger needed to top up partially discharged batteries and had to work hard.
I am not sure if this was the correct way to leave the boat when I was away but the only main switch ( big red ones) that I left in the on position was the house battery bank but all the other rocker switches on the DC panel were off as were the switches on the AC panel so I didn't think anything should be a drain on the batteries.
Last question . Which battery does the windlass get its power from ? I don't see it anywhere on the schematics I have.
Any ideas?
Dave ( LET IT BE)

 

[Andrew Custis]

First thing I would be suspect of is the foot switch on the bow. I would disconnect from the system and see if the problem persists. Should be an easy check and easy swap if needed.

Thank you,

 

[knotflying]

Perhaps the 29 is wired differently. I thought the windless was usually wired to the thruster battery. I think you may have two different things going on. The windless may be a coincidence. Your assumption may be correct. If it went rouge you would have had a pile of chain. The house batteries are a bit old and could have discharged due to age. If you want to rule them out you should charge them up and do a load test. Also, depending on how the boat is wired, the charging relays will not close if the batteries are too low, hence they won't charge. This is a safety feature. Your solar panel should be connected directly from the controller to the batteries. If you were getting a large draw the panel wouldn't keep up. There is a status light on the controller. There are a few blinking codes that indicate the status and if there is trouble there should also be a red light. If you have a remote meter you can see if it is charging and there is also a trouble light on that.
First thing I would do is get the batteries charged and do a load test. At five years old and perhaps a few large discharges they could be shot. Once you determine that your batteries are good you can start checking your other systems. I wouldn't get sidetracked by the windless malady until you have the battery problem resolved. It can get difficult to diagnose If you start chasing too many things at once.

 

[LET IT BE]

Thanks Andrew and Knotify for your input. I will post anything of interest as I get to the bottom of the problem even if it's something stupid that I have done.

 

[LET IT BE]

I took Andrews advice and checked the down foot switch and found it was shorted out internally. It is a sealed unit and I can see no obvious sign of corrosion. It is made by ITW Switchpanels and has several numbers on a label. GB 13084
30363. 690008?6 and 0412 it has 3 screws to mount it and a one inch diameter "Barrel" and hole in the deck. The cap is sold without a hole for finger operation. When I searched the Internet and found a picture of the same switch it was listed as DISCONTINUED and an "IMMEDIATE LEWMAR ADVISORY NOTICE" was attached to the picture.
The advisory was long but suggested these switches should be inspected ANNUALLY and REPLACED every 3 to 5 years because that is the anticipated life expectancy due to the harsh environment out there on deck!
I wonder if you were aware of a problem with these switches installed on my 2013 R29 and what switch you suggest as a replacement (I will replace both up and down switches). Obviously I would prefer to use the same screw pattern and hole size if compatible with a better switch.
I think that I will get in the habit of disconnecting power to the windlass at the breaker except when deploying the anchor from now on!
Again your advice will be appreciated.

LET IT BE

 

[Scottfree]

I have just experienced the same problem on my 2010 R29 I have the exact same set up. I am currently doing the Great Loop and am on the ICW. I was running single handed for 10 days as my wife had flown home to visit. While underway my winch started and jammed the anchor up tight to the winch making a horrid noise until the breaker popped. That afternoon while at anchor in a river my winch again started retrieving my anchor. I was able to flip the breaker before my anchor let go of the bottom. I am now using the winch with caution and shutting off the breaker when not in use. I am sitting in Savannah Georgia and will try to source new switches. At the very least I will disconnect the deck switches and use my console switch only. I think it would be advisable that anybody with these switches replaces them. During our year long trip we have anchored several times and gone ashore. If this had happened while away from my boat it would have been much more serious.

Thanks for your detailed post. I simple search on Tugnuts saved me a lot of time.

PS We moor at Canoe Cove in Sidney BC and will be back Spring 2019 if your would like to meet.

Cheers, Leon

 

[BB marine]

I didn't read this when it was first posted. This is good information. I did a search to see when the switch was discontinued.I could not find that information. It appears it was after they sent the Advisory Notice . The advisory notice was 2011 and the switch apparently was installed on Ranger models 2013. It doesn't seem like the switch has had a high failure rate with Tugs but it may be starting based on the life expectancy of the switch. What was the model number of the discontinued switch?

When I searched the Internet and found a picture of the same switch it was listed as DISCONTINUED and an "IMMEDIATE LEWMAR ADVISORY NOTICE" was attached to the picture.

 

[Scottfree]

The original Poster "Let It Be" has listed some numbers in his post of his research. I'm guessing those are model numbers. Regardless the switch is no longer available. This morning I cut the low voltage wires to both the foot switches and am now wired so I have just a functioning "UP" switch on deck. Of course the switch, the previous down switch, is the same vintage of the dead switch but in that it was seldom used I hope it's a get home fix. The dead switch I'll leave in place to stop the rain. Lewmar has several switches listed on their web site so if you could actually talk to a human you might find one that fits the one inch hole in the deck. It would be nice if this was recognised as a safety issue and dealt with as a "Recall" even to the extent of using the Factory leverage to research a replacement switch. I would happily purchase the new switch at my own cost in that my boat is 8 years old. I tried going to a marine store but of course received the "Deer in the headlights" look when I ask for a specific part. I'll keep looking and post anything that will work.

Just sitting at the dock waiting for a storm to pass anyway.

Cheers, Leon

 

[Scottfree]

Ahh West Marine carries Lewmar Deck Switches! Not in stock of course but they can get them. Great if your not a moving target!

 

[Ralf H]

Hi All!

Just wanted to chime in with some quick info. Scottfree is right. The switches we currently use for these boats are available at West Marine under the part number 68001031. If you are having issues finding these, please let me know and I will try to help find a better source. There isn't much we can do in the way of warranty on the old switches, as this issue is quite a way in the past. But I can understand that doessn't make it less frustrating. At least there is an alternative available.

There really isn't much to be done in regard to a recall on this issue, as the manufacturer has already issued their own notice to replace. I am confident that the new switch will work well, as we have not had any failures that I am aware of at this time. Please let me know if anyone still has any questions on these switches.

Thanks!!

 

[Dale777]

Ralf,

Since Lewmar has issued a "notice to replace" on these foot switches, can you identify the boat models and production years that have these "notice to replace" switches? If you don't have this information in a precise way, then at least tell us some production date range for when we might have the "notice to replace" switches on our boats.

That would be most helpful to those of us who like to be proactive in dealing with potential problems. I certainly don't want to be one who discovers the problem switch while anchored out in the middle of the night!

Thanks,

 

[scross]

Yikes!! Can this runaway windlass event happen with the Thruster/Windlass battery master rotary switch in the off position?
We normally leave that battery master switch off except for while preparing to depart and while underway. Turn the master rotary switch off once at dock or on mooring buoy.
If the runaway can happen with the battery master switch off this really scares me! I have our anchor secured while towing but the thought of having 200+ ft of line and chain being deployed and flailing around under the boat at highway speeds would be a disaster!
Bad enough having the anchor pulled up in the middle of the night unexpectedly while at anchorage!
Visually confirmed my switches were the ones discontinued in 2014 and are subject to the replace warning from Lewmar. Didn't wait for the answer to my first question - ordered new switches right after I read this thread!

http://www.lewmar.com/sites/default/fil ... tion_0.pdf

 

[BB marine]

Finding out what model year the old switches were used by Ranger and Cutwater would be useful information. The information I came up with is part # 93000346 is one of the switches that the advisory may have pertained to. It was manufactured up to 2014, it is a deck switch closed lid that is 60MM in diameter. It was then discontinued and has been directly replaced by the SX switch 68001031. It is available at defender and west marine.

 

[scross]

New Lewmar deck switches for windlass installed today. Pretty simple, all existing wiring is accessible through the anchor rode locker. Old switches were a bit hard to get off the deck as they had been sealed with lots of adhesive caulk. Old wires are 16 gauge while new wires were 14 gauge. Used heat shrink tubing over butt splices using pro crimper. Created service loop which was tie wrapped to stainless eye loops that I epoxied to the flat surfaces. All new wires are well out of way of chain and rode going into and out of anchor locker. Took about 2 hours to complete including testing.
Biggest surprise was finding active wasp nest well hidden next to old wires as I started work!

 

[knotflying]

I just replaced mine as well. I wish there was more slack in the existing lines. I had to do my crimping and heat shrink while reaching into the locker. I wanted to run the wires all the way back to the initial connection, but could not find where they terminated. It would be nice if Ranger provided a little more slack in the wires at the termination point. Some of the connections on the boat are near impossible to service because of lack of slack.