Windlass vs winch

[stwendl]

I see that most boats in the us use a windlass instead of an anchor winch. A windlass requires a certain amount of free space below for the line and/or chain to fall and pile upon. A winch uses less space by winding up the line and chain onto a drum. My r27 does not have the required space to pile up without clogging the windlass and requiring manual intervention. I presume all smaller models have the same issue. A deeper chain locker would have prevented this. Wondering if this is something that could be added afterwards, or if someone has found a solution. I imagine some form of locker extension that could be screwed on after making a big opening at bottom of the chain locker and rerouting the drain. The extension would need to be removable to access the boweye nuts.

Having seen several demonstrations of anchorwinches, mostly from Australia, I kinda started to like that system. Installing that on a ranger would be a bit of a challenge from an access point of view. A inspection hatch on the inside would be handy for that.

Just throwing out some ideas. Perhaps a drum winch makes it into a future model.

 

[Todd]

Winches could be a problem on a boat like ours because unless there is a large distance between the roller and the winch the chain and line will pile up on one side of the winch instead of being evenly distributed across the drum. Gets worse if you spool it in without tension on the cable.

Additionally the winching and holding power is dependent upon how much cable is spooled on the drum. Twice the drum diameter equals half the pulling power.

 

[Crewdog]

Additionally the winching and holding power is dependent upon how much cable is spooled on the drum. Twice the drum diameter equals half the pulling power.

Great point; this is why I shortened the strap on the trailer hand winch from 20 feet to 15 feet.

 

[knotflying]

A deeper chain locker is the best, but my only solution, when alone, has been to retrieve the anchor from the bow and wrap the rode around making a large hole in the middle. I then can go to the helm and pull it up the rest of the way.

 

[Red Raven]

I need to go to the bow anyway to secure/unsecure the anchor via the bail or other locking means. I don’t travel without it locked to avoid accidental deployment. Also the anchor usually comes up muddy so it needs to go up and down several times while I am watching to clean it off. Since I am up there anyway it has never seemed to be an issue to reach in the clear the locker a couple times. I do similar to knot, though I make a big hole for the chain by pulling the nylon rode to one side. The chain then just drops in.

 

[captstu]

I converted to 1/4” ht all chain, about 120 feet. Stacks flawlessly on my R25.


Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796

 

[NorthernFocus]

I converted to 1/4” ht all chain, about 120 feet. Stacks flawlessly on my R25.

That was my solution as well. I think I settled on 125 ft of 1/4 chain and a couple hundred feet of nylon under it. With the nylon laid down properly in the locker the chain stacks itself no problem. Once in a while it will stack up and jam on retrieval but is easily cleared by paying five feet or so back out and continuing retrieval. The chain alone is adequate for 90 percent of our anchoring needs. The other times I just go on the bow and coil down the nylon as it comes aboard.

 

[Seaquel]

I concur with Red Raven. Typically I go to the bow to deploy/retrieve the anchor as I secure/release the bale; and when retrieving I usually pull the rode up/down vigorously a few times to clean off the anchor of mud/eelgrass. While at the bow it is no big deal to occasionally push over the rode stack to allow retrieval without bunching up.

Coincidentally, for our upcoming trip to Alaska this summer, we are relegating the standard Ranger anchor/rode package (16.5# Bruce-style anchor + 50' chain + 200' 5/8" 3-strand nylon line) as our emergency/second anchor and replacing with a heavier/longer set-up. Our primary anchor/rode is now a 25# Delta-style anchor + 80' 5/16" G4 chain + 270' 5/8" 8-plait braided nylon line. The 100' of additional overall length will fit in our R27 Classis anchor locker because: chain stows more compactly than line; 8-plait braided line stows more compactly than does the 3-strand line. There is additional benefit of the braided line as it offers more stretch than the 3-strand line (in addition to not kinking as much). The additional stretch increases holding power and reduces strain on the tug's hardware. Of course, the fit is relatively snug with 350' total length and will certainly require being stationed on the bow to clear space in the anchor locker as it is fed in.

Incidentally, I spoke directly with Lewmar, the windlass supplier for Ranger Tugs. They were very helpful, and it is important to know that not just any chain or line will work flawlessly with your windlass. If you consider changing out your chain and/or rode as I did, the Ranger Tug parts dept. can put you in touch with Lewmar.

 

[NorthernFocus]

...Incidentally, I spoke directly with Lewmar, the windlass supplier for Ranger Tugs. They were very helpful, and it is important to know that not just any chain or line will work flawlessly with your windlass. If you consider changing out your chain and/or rode as I did, the Ranger Tug parts dept. can put you in touch with Lewmar.

Or you can find the required chain specs in the Lewmar owner's manual.

I forgot to mention that changing to 1/4 in chain required replacing the gypsy on the windlass($75 part and DIY labor). The standard windlass as supplied by Ranger is fitted for 5/16 chain.

 

[YukonRon]

I am also in the process of upgrading our ground tackle as Sequel did, as we too are planning to spend a bunch of time at anchor off the coast of Southeast Alaska. Our R25sc came with a Rocna 6 (13Lbs), 50 ft of 5/16 chain, and 180 ft of 5/8" 3-strand rope. It will stay on the boat as spare ground tackle. Our Lewmar 1000 windlass is set up for this combination.
I bought a Rocna 15 (33lbs) and a Titan pre-spliced rode of 50 ft of 5/16 G43 chain and 250 ft of 5/8" 8-Plait nylon rope. I'm just waiting for the Crosby forged alloy 2 2/3 ton rated 7/16" shackle I ordered to put it together. Once the weather warms up and I get it installed I will post pictures.
I am also counting on the fact that the 8-plait will flake more easily into the locker, to make up for the extra length. I do usually retrieve from the bow and manually arrange the rode a few times during the retrieve. I expect I will have to also lay some of the first part of the rope neatly around the edges of the locker to help the chain pile up in the middle with as little intervention as possible.
And, yes, I know this new setup is probably way overkill for my boat, but I needed a spare so decided to upgrade. I will sleep better at night. 🙂

 

[Seaquel]

...Incidentally, I spoke directly with Lewmar, the windlass supplier for Ranger Tugs. They were very helpful, and it is important to know that not just any chain or line will work flawlessly with your windlass. If you consider changing out your chain and/or rode as I did, the Ranger Tug parts dept. can put you in touch with Lewmar.

Or you can find the required chain specs in the Lewmar owner's manual.

I forgot to mention that changing to 1/4 in chain required replacing the gypsy on the windlass($75 part and DIY labor). The standard windlass as supplied by Ranger is fitted for 5/16 chain.

As Dan notes, the chain specs are in the owner's manual. So are the rope specs. But Lewmar further cautioned me that all rope specs are not created equally, and to be especially wary of those made in China where there is little oversight to ensure industry specs. Here is a quote directly from Lewmar:

"Make sure you order a Marine Grade 8 plait line. There is no industry standard for the manufacture of plaited line and there are some lines that are very soft lay and they may jam in the windlass gypsy. Lewmar anchor rodes are made using Bucaneer brand 8 plaited line. If you are shopping locally I suggest you look for New England or Sampson plaited line."

Like YukonRon, I'd prefer to error on overkill than invite risk. Can't put a price on a good night's sleep! 🙂

 

[Cutwater28GG]

how are you guys marking off distance on the chain/rope? paint? markers?

 

[captstu]

No such thing as overkill on ground tackle. Wake up safe and think, “sure wish I has a smaller anchor out so I could wake up dragging.”


Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796

 

[YukonRon]

... Wake up safe and think, “sure wish I has a smaller anchor out so I could wake up dragging.”

Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796

LOL...Ya, that's never gonna happen 😀

 

[NorthernFocus]

how are you guys marking off distance on the chain/rope? paint? markers?

On the chain I use florescent colored wire ties. The small ones, maybe four inch? On the nylon just colored electrical tape. I double the wire ties because they tend to break off once in a while. When one disappears just replace it. If you put the electrical tape on nice and tight it lasts an amazing long time. Pretty much indefinitely. Tried paint on chain in the past and it's just not that visible in all conditions.

 

[Seaquel]

how are you guys marking off distance on the chain/rope? paint? markers?

On the chain I use florescent colored wire ties. The small ones, maybe four inch? On the nylon just colored electrical tape. I double the wire ties because they tend to break off once in a while. When one disappears just replace it. If you put the electrical tape on nice and tight it lasts an amazing long time. Pretty much indefinitely. Tried paint on chain in the past and it's just not that visible in all conditions.

Ditto, I use flourescent wire ties too. In the past, I’ve used them on both the chain and 3-strand nylon. About to switch out to the new rode, will see if I can use the wire ties on 8-plait line as well.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

the wire ties dont cause the chain/rode to jump off the gypsy? I assume you clip off the spare bit tie?

you putting them every 10 feet or 25?

 

[Seaquel]

Yes, clip off the excess, very close. Does not adversely impact the gypsy at all.

By clipping them very close, I’ve also not experienced them breaking off, so lower maintenance than paint that wears off and typically requires re-painting every year.

 

[NorthernFocus]

the wire ties dont cause the chain/rode to jump off the gypsy? I assume you clip off the spare bit tie?

you putting them every 10 feet or 25?

I don't clip off the tails. No problems with gypsy. Much easier to see with tails attached but that may indeed be why they break now and then. I put yellow at 25, 75, and about 125 just before the splice comes through the deck. Blue/green at 50 and 100 and a triple red so it's hitting the windlass just as the shank of the anchor is reaching the surface.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

thankyou!