Yanmar impeller and belt access ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

R

rpmerrill

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
608
Fluid Motion Model
C-28
Vessel Name
BAY RANGER
I've had my 2012 R-27 for three boating seasons now. The first season I had a slew if engine maintenance items done at the end of the season. Impeller and belts were on my list. (I'm beginning to wonder and need to go back into my files to see if it was really done.) I did all my winterizing myself that first year.

At the end of my second year I did my oil changes and all the filters. AND I did my winterizing.
No problem... just a little messy.
Oh ya, I changed my engine zincs as well. I had to fab up some custom tooling to get access but no big deal. (I also own a 40 year old British car.)

Here we are at the end of my third season and I still need to expand my resume. Oils and filters, and engine zincs already done. I'll do the engine coolant and winterizing after we get hauled. BUT I've been getting antsy to do the "fan" belts and the pump impeller.

First I needed to remove the "Access Panel" between the cabin and the engine. A couple screws and bim-bam were done?
NO WAY. The panel, I discovered, actually penetrates into the back wall of the cave. A couple more screws. One had to be drilled out. (I'm liking those square drive screws less and less.) I also had to loosen the aft, starboard side panel to allow the access panel to slide towards port. But it wouldn't totally slide out of the way. It is too long.

At this point I can see the belts and water pump, but lying on my belly I can barely touch them with my fingertips. I have no idea how I could possibly get in there with two arms and tools. This is pretty discouraging.

Looking for hints and tips and maybe some encouragement.
 
I feel your pain! I previously owned a 2011 R27 and had a heck of a time replacing the impeller because of the access challenge you describe. This was easily the hardest DIY job I have undertaken on my Ranger Tugs, but (here is the encouragement), I was able to get it done. Even though I am reasonably large, I was able squeeze my head, shoulders and arms into the access hole and (barely) get an allen wrench on the bolts and successfully remove the housing & replace the impeller. It took multiple hours to get this done and was really awkward and uncomfortable, so perhaps it would be worth paying a marine mechanic to do this for you.

FWIW, I believe that some other Tugnuts have posted that they actually widened the access hole to make it easier to access the front of the 4BY-180.
 
At knotflying’s suggestion I cut the slide out panel in half where it enters the engine space. Now I don’t have disassemble any of the stuff in the aft end of the cave. The interior piece now comes out through the access panel under the step. Much easier!
 
cut the slide out panel in half ...

I think that will be on my list!
 
Sure do love the engine access on my 21ec. Pull two pins and set the whole engine cover on the lawn, instant access to every corner of the engine. Changed the impeller, belt, three filters, engine oil and gearbox oil, then flushed with antifreeze in about an hour. I do get envious of the bigger boats with all the big boat features, but not when I am doing winter maintenance. Three years old and already 378 hours on it! One fine cruising boat for a couple to spend each summer. All boats are compromises, just have to pick which areas to compromise in. For me engine access was important, and the engine box makes a great place to prepare meals and cook on.
 
When we had our R27 this was my most time consuming task. In order to improve the time spent I had a friend help me. After the panel disassemble I put a towel below the impeller pump to catch any bolts that might fall, 2 did over the years we had the boat but were easily retrieved in the towel. My friend would work from the cabin to turn the belt pully while I, from atop the engine worked to get the belt off. We’d continue as my friend gave me directions from his cabin floor vantage point, giving me directions as I lay on the engine to loosen and take out the screws to the housing off and take the impeller out. We did the same in reverse to reinstall a new impeller and or belt. I think we got down to an hour and a half on our last mechanical gymnastics routine. If I were to do it over I think I’d make the cabin access panel larger so I could have done the job by myself and in the end I believe the factory did do this on later models.

Him
 
I modified the step on my 25SC for better access, there are pics in my photo album. Get yourself a stretch belt removal tool as seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGJCtWKkaTE attach a thin line to it and put it on your wrist so you don't drop it in the bilge. I only use the removal tool, the install tool isn't necessary to stretch the belt on. I do the entire job through the step by myself in just over an hour or so. I change the impeller every year in May, so in March I start a diet to give myself more room 😀 Knotflying posted a step by step process five years ago for the entire operation.viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3318&p=26875&hilit=impeller#p26875
 
Hmmmm.... you think doing the impeller replacement is hard on the R-27 Classic...... just try it for the R-25 Classic.... it simply is a beast of a job and one I would never do again myself.
 
Cut the interior panel in half, make the outside access panel opening bigger and follow the instructions originally posted. I can do mine start to finish in about one hour now.
 
Whew!!!!!
With the help of a spotter (and psychological support person) I was able to do the impeller and 2 belt replacement.
That was a bear! Learned a few tricks from you Nuts and also a few more along the way.

Taking it apart wasn't difficult. Putting it back together was another story.
Finding the bolt holes in the blind was tough, even with a spotter. Part of my problem was starting the short little 8mm screws in the threaded holes in the block. Once we figured it out...it went better. The impeller was not totally inserted into the block. Thus the coverplate/hub didn't get close enough to catch a thread on the short bolts. After I figured it out and (blindly) twisted and pushed the impeller in farther, the pump pulley/hub located itself properly and all was well.

One more item: Even with a belt install tool, installing the two new belts was not a breeze. It was no fun.
Tomorrow I'll be reassembling the cockpit/cabin separation panel and installing the new cave wall.
Not sure I want to do this job again.

Thanks to all you Nuts for help and support.
I owe you!
 
It took me 2 weeks to have the many bruises and fiber glass cuts on my two arms heal after doing the impeller replacement on my R-25 Classic. I vowed to myself never to do this maintenance chore again. The biggest disappointment for me was when examining the old impeller it was perfectly fine without any damage. 😱 :roll:
 
Barry I understand your thoughts however I’ll make a suggestion. Even if one never goes thru an impeller replacement again it’s my belief that the experience of going thru the process, however difficult, is important for that time we hope never happens.....an impeller failure when we’re away from the comfort of our home dock or waters. If this happens, even if we ourselves don’t make the swap, I feel the learning experience we went thru on the initial change will help guiding a technician thru the process. By the way Barry the impeller on your new R29 is very easy to access.

Jim
 
Yes Jim.... you're correct on both of those aspects/items. 🙂

Although not really of any concern to me now, I have wondered how easy/difficult it is to change the raw water impeller on the Yamaha F300 outboard motor ? I guess it's one reason to have the optional kicker motor. :roll:
 
baz":20be70qv said:
Although not really of any concern to me now, I have wondered how easy/difficult it is to change the raw water impeller on the Yamaha F300 outboard motor ? I guess it's one reason to have the optional kicker motor.
Click to expand...
I was told it is easy to change the impeller on the F300..... IF the boat is out of the water. Apparently the lower unit needs to be pulled. It is only a few bolts, but it is not a job to be done with the boat in the water. Technically it could be done, but I for one would NOT take the chance of dropping a bolt into the drink!! I haven't seen the F300 shop manual to know for sure that this is the procedure.
 
trailertrawlerkismet":33empdqp said:
Barry I understand your thoughts however I’ll make a suggestion. Even if one never goes thru an impeller replacement again it’s my belief that the experience of going thru the process, however difficult, is important for that time we hope never happens.....an impeller failure when we’re away from the comfort of our home dock or waters. If this happens, even if we ourselves don’t make the swap, I feel the learning experience we went thru on the initial change will help guiding a technician thru the process. By the way Barry the impeller on your new R29 is very easy to access.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim

You are absolutely correct! After 3 hrs of agony on Monday I had the new impeller installed in our R25SC with a d3. I started the engine and was dismayed to see a leak. Heading back in and starting by depressing the belt tensioner. At that point the socket and ratchet fell and rolled under the engine. The technician will arrive tomorrow at 0830 to fix the impeller and retrieve the wrench. I have decided that I will do all future maintenance except the impeller. Nevertheless, as I explained to my wife, when s**t happens and I have to replace an impeller in the middle of nowhere I will tackle the job knowing fully what is involved and how many calming cocktails will be required when it is complete.
 
Impellers are a challenge, but usually you can see the pump when you go looking for it and see the pump when your working on it so overall in the wide wide world of boat work it’s not too too bad; the challenge is how far from you it is, down a long, narrow cluttered hallway so to speak. And this, like oil and filter changes and battery maintenance is something you want to get good at.

Then, when you think the job is done, there’s a leak or the key left it’s position on the shaft at installation and it doesn't pump water at all! And then there’s how the bolt pattern is arranged making only one position correct for reassembly.

Little tricks I’ve done is line said hallway with pillows with carpet on top for a comfortable recline as you're going to be there a while. Mark an up arrow on the backing plate prior to removal. Replace the bolts with allen head fasteners as they stick better to the end of the long long long extension your having to use. Have on hand a set of needle nose pliers about two feet long. A little dab of grease will hold the bolt in the shallow socket if your going that reinstallation route. Towel underneath as mentioned to catch fallen parts, buy extra fasteners. No drinkies until done, otherwise you’ll just wander off. And I’ve recently purchased an actual impeller puller, looks impressive, have yet to use it.

And what I’m actually freakin going to do is buy an entire brand new raw water pump! As decent as I’ve gotten at boat repairs and maintenance over the many many many years here in my golden years I find myself beaten to a pulp, submission at last. Now, I can’t afford a boat if I pay for everything, on my new to me R29 I just squeaked out about 20K of repairs out for around 5K so I’m still bending back and turning wrenches. And to be honest I haven't even gone looking for the raw water pump yet so there’s that.

But my theory is the pump is held by three or so bolts, you untension the belt tensioner pop the belt off, easy peasy and the only other challenge/risk is getting the two hoses off the pump. I’m seriously considering carrying spares of the two hoses. Then you put on your brand new pump you know for sure works and doesn't leak! Could be especially applicable if you're bobbing around on the water somewhere unexpected far from tow or outside repair, I’m buying an additional alternator too.

Then you take the removed pump to your workbench, drinkies for everyone ‘cause you can wander off and come back and tenderly replace it’s impeller just right rinse and repeat every year or two!

What could possibly go wrong?
 
At least on my R25, the impeller service seems easy compared to access to the rear thruster. 🙂 After cutting some fiberglass out of the way, I can swap impellers in under an hour. My record for the rear thruster is closer to 2.5 hours.
 
Servicing the raw water impellor can be difficult or can be easy - your choice. A good way to make the service easy (other than getting someone else to do the work) is to modify the step at the cabin entrance. To get an idea about what is involved check out p. 4 of the image gallery by "nzfisher", tug name "Swims With Tuna".
 
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