50 Hour Service...OUCH!

[Boondocker]

I retained Coastal Marine in Seattle to do my 50 hour service on our Cutwater as there are no Volvo Certified Diesel shops in South Sound to my knowledge. One of their mechanics lives in Tacoma; so, we arranged for a dock call on his way home. Watched the mechanic perform the work as I was curious what was entailed with the service. Work performed was as follows:

1)Oil / Filter Change (I provided the oil)
2)Fuel Filter Change
3)Engine Zinc Change

Provided the mechanic with 3.25 Gallons of DELO 400 LE (Rebranded VOLVO oil is impossible to find South Sound) as the Owners manual says capacity with filter change 3.2 GAL. Was told I'd need at least 3.5 GAL. Pointed out the note in the owners manual and was told it was wrong. What do I know, I'm not a diesel mechanic. Imagine my surprise when I checked my oil the other day and found the oil level approx 3/8" above the full mark. Nothing good comes out of running an engine "over-full" on oil; so, I'll suck out the extra prior to next adventure.

Total time on boat <45 Minutes

Total Bill $680.00

My bad for not getting an estimate ahead of time, but quite honestly this was the most expensive oil change I've ever paid for. I've always done this sort of work in the past myself, but was concerned about any possible warranty issues by not having the first service done by a certified shop.

I'll chock it up to tuition of life as some lessons are expensive along the way.

 

[baz]

These periodic maintenance invoices are hard to swallow... I agree. Here's my info for our 250 hr service check done in Oct last year.

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I had a $500 Yanmar Auction gift cert (won at the 2012 annual Tugnuts meeting in Bremerton) for the Yanmar 250 hr service and was told by Gallery Marine Seattle in advance this should be sufficient for the service. 😉 ... but see below as to what I ended up paying.

I've just received my Gallery Marine Services, LLC invoice for our 250 hr 4BY2-150 engine in our R25. The bill came to $918.83 that includes 9.5% tax. It included 5 hrs of labor at $110/hr which I would say includes 1 hr of travel time to Edmonds as the actual work took only 4 hrs.

This did include replacing engine zincs at $38.70 each along with $6.40 for each of the zinc's copper washers!!!!! As a note I normally replace these myself for a fraction of this cost, and will now never have this done during a service check.

I also ensured they checked the water pump impeller during this service -- which is part of the service per the Yanmar maintenance checklist.

The two fuel filters were terribly expensive as I recall -- somewhere around $80 each. Gallery Marine provided the oil which is pretty spendy as I also recall and all other parts for the servicing. They did check the impeller and said it did not need replacing at the time.

As you can see, the labor charge was around $550 and the rest was for parts.... this was a big expense for me. I'm wondering if buying parts in advance from Ranger Tugs would be more cost effective for me... dunno. I do know the engine zincs can be purchased for a few $s at BoatZincs for $12.74.

I sent a note to Andrew about this with following two questions.
1) Is this $918.83 a reasonable charge as it seems rather high to me ?
2) Is it higher than normal that you've heard about from other R25 owners ?

Andrew replied with the following at the time...
The invoice seems a bit high for a 250 hour service but I am also used to seeing invoices for our Ranger 27 and 25SC which you know make for an easier service. I would hope that they replaced the impeller if they actually took the time to pull the cover and belt. $550.00 for service isn't too unreasonable for a company to travel out and perform the service. I would assume the rest of the invoice was for parts and oil.

[EDIT]
Let me add that the Service Manager at Gallery Marine did say in advance the $500 Yanmar gift cert would cover the service expense and was cashed in with Yanmar without issues. However, a few weeks later he returned a call saying he was unaware of the high cost of Yanmar parts and that I would need to pay an additional amount of around $400. Ouch... as you posted.

I replaced my oil myself for the 50 hr service and will continue to do so for as long as we own the R-25 from now on. The cost of the oil changing equipment will more than pay for itself. Bob of Nellie Too was kind enough to loan me his oil changer equipment for my first oil change and have since then purchased the same equipment myself. I buy the oil filter from Ranger and buy the oil myself. It takes about 1 hour of my time to drain the oil and replace it along with the oil filter.

 

[knotflying]

Boondocker,

I did not see mention that at the 50 hour that they also serviced the transmission and did a check of the shaft alignment. This is part of the 50 hour on the Yanmar. I would think it would be similar with the Volvo.

 

[Gin]

Ouch is right! With a bit over 30 hrs on our Volvo in the R27, we've begun to think about the first service. If all it really involves is an oil change, I will be hard pressed to have a "certified" mechanic do it.

Engine zincs surprised me. I can't find any reference in the Volvo manual about them. I don't have the printed manual that came with our tug (it's on board). But I have the pdf that I pulled off line for the 200hp. Page 73 shows it with the inboard transmission. No sacrificial anodes noted anywhere, as opposed to the photos on the prior page for the outdrive version, which shows sacrificial anodes in two places on the outdrive. Where are the zincs on ours?

Also, the maintenance schedule is laid out on pages 67 through 69. No mention of zinc replacement anywhere. In fact, the initial service doesn't list much of anything, except inspection of several things, and a cleaning of the fuel pre-filter. No oil change until the first 100 hours or 180 days of delivery (although there is a footnote that says "Oil change intervals vary depending on engine type, oil grade, and sulfur content of the fuel." ). Not much help. I can't imagine waiting for 100 hours on a break in period to do a first oil change. Doing it at 50 hours makes better sense, regardless of what the schedule says.

As I said, the manuals that came with the boat are on board. I'm thinking there may be a more detailed maintenance schedule in the on-board manuals, but I can't recall for sure. Does anyone know if there is something more?

Beyond that, I'm interested in what others may use for their oil changes. Something like a Mityvac 7400 manual siphon evacutation pump? Or this, from West Marine?

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...&subdeptNum=50396&classNum=50402#.UhZNexa-8hw

-- Gini

 

[baz]

Boondocker,

I did not see mention that at the 50 hour that they also serviced the transmission and did a check of the shaft alignment. This is part of the 50 hour on the Yanmar. I would think it would be similar with the Volvo.

Yes... On our Yanmar 4BY2-150 the shaft alignment check was done as well as the transmission oil replacement.

I did the oil change... Ref: http://www.tugnuts.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1151&p=8319&hilit=oil+change#p8319

Shaft alignment Ref: http://www.tugnuts.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1319&p=9339&hilit=Shaft+alignment#p9339

 

[baz]

Gini:

AFAIK -- the Volvo engine you have does not have anodes.

I use this WM product for oil changes. The hand pump is very laborious and time consuming compared to the electric pump equipment.

Ref: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...&subdeptNum=50396&classNum=50402#.UhZaVRa9P4M

My son-in-law has a sailboat with inboard engine which is kept close to our R-25, so we split the cost for this oil changer. I will say, it does a marvelous job and is simple to use.

 

[Gin]

Barry, given the cost of having someone else change the oil, that unit you have, despite its cost, would pay for itself on the first use (or at the least, the second). Thanks for the info.

Gini

 

[knotflying]

I use this one. a little slow, but it does the job http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|311|296536|314179&id=437355

 

[baz]

Mike: I also like that model as the bucket type can easily tip with the weight of the pump on top when there's no oil inside the bucket. The one you have is less likely to tip... and the spout cap makes it a bit easier to pour out the old oil. 🙂

 

[PhilR]

I'm with Mike and Baz...the bucket type tips too easily. If you're guessing that a half full bucket tipped over in the bed of my pickup, you're right.

Phil

 

[BaseCampAnne]

I received a coupon in the mail from Fluid Motion for a $150. credit on my Volvo engine on the 2013 Ranger Tug for the first service only. And the manual is very specific about what is to be done at that 50 hour service and to my recall said nothing about zincs. It did require all parts to be Volvo, and lo and behold, Cap Sante Marine does not use Volvo's specific oil. However, Volvo allowed the credit after the manager made a phone call.

I watched everything, and even drove the boat to their dock since I have discovered since having a boat that no "professional" mechanic of any kind EVER has all the tools needed. Friends may have the parts...not those fellows on call. Even at their dock, it took three trips to the shop, and the parts shop is up on shore from the docks.

I was aware of the exact time the work session began but forgot to write down when it ended, because we had to move my boat to get another boat out from the docks.

The mechanic and office staff were very nice, and I ended up with a bill larger than I expected, given the coupon. I also questioned an extra half hour, but then decided to skip it after the employee was about to be called to the office.

I am on a public computer and have to get off, but I know the bill was under $600. total. I will try to post the hours and cost back later.

 

[Boondocker]

I don't know if its required at 50 hour service, but he inspected the two Engine Zincs on my Volvo D4 and both were easily 33% Degraded. There was one on the underside of the front and back of engine. They are not very large.. About size of first knuckle on middle finger.

 

[Gin]

Anne, if you can easily list what Cap Sante actually checked and did, that could be very helpful to those of us with the 50 hour service ahead. You have the 29, so the tasks may differ. It looks like your D4 engine may have zincs where those of us with the D3 engine of not. Probably there are other differences as well. But I doubt major ones.

As these new-to-to-the-tugs Volvo engines get into circulation, we can all really benefit from these info exchanges.

Gini

 

[River Bank]

Looks like I'm not alone after-all:

The cost of servicing a boat is horrendous. I certainly sympathize with your costly experiences.

I bought my boat last spring and felt I should take it in and have the zincs checked and have a look at the paint job on the hull. To my dismay, there was very little paint left on the hull, most had just sloughed off. The previous owner simply applied a bottom coat without any undercoat or fiberglass prep. So, I had it done right this time, in addition to wiring in my solar panel. The bill came to just under $7,000! God knows what it would have been had I asked for an oil change.

I am now considering doing those oil changes myself or hiring an unemployed mechanic to do it for me. Yes, I know about those warrantees, and their voidance if you use someone else's parts etc, but I am so fed up with these boat yard riff-offs that I will likely go my own way. Paying some kid $95/hour to power-wash my boat's hull and apply a few layers of paint is just too much to take.

Bob /// $Merlot$ /// Nanaimo

 

[Gin]

God knows what it would have been had I asked for an oil change.

Funny. True. And sad because it's true. But funny.

Gini

 

[SGIDAVE]

Or this, from West Marine?

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...&subdeptNum=50396&classNum=50402#.UhZNexa-8hw

-- Gini

I can vouch for a similar, somewhat larger-capacity unit sold under the MityVac brand (http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-7201-Flui ... +extractor). It is easy to use and has enough capacity to drain the oil from my diesel cars in one sitting as opposed to the 6 qt/L capacity units. As everyone points out, the cost of one of these oil extractors is paid by the first service you perform yourself (rather than paying a technician).

The oil extractors also work well for draining oil from lawn mowers, golf carts, tractors, and many cars & trucks that have top-access oil filter elements such that there is no reason to crawl under vehicle to perform oil/filter service.

Auto parts stores and Walmart in my area all will take back the used oil for recycling. Easy peasy.

/david

 

[South lake]

After reading this thread I went back and pulled the invoice from last summer when I had the 50 hour service done on our R-25 with the 150 Yanmar.

The boat was in the water at our house which is on a lake in west central Ohio. The nearest Yanmar certified service was Burt's Diesel in Woodville, Ohio, approximately 120 miles away. They service boats on Lake Erie. They came down and changed the oil and filter (I provided the oil), checked the strainer, air intake, exhaust system, battery fluid levels, adjusted the shift cable, and checked the prop shaft alignment.

Labor, filter, and Tax was $278.

Just for some additional info, later in the summer last year we had moved the boat up to Lake Erie. The impeller went out. I again had Burt's Diesel do the work. Labor and parts were $1,100.

Over the winter the prop shaft anode was replaced by South Shore Marine with a parts and labor charge of $49.

 

[Gin]

David, on the Mityvac siphon pump, any issues with using it with synthetic? Amazon.com sells them, and several people commented that they had issues with leaking with synthetic. BUT, they were Mercedes Benz owners, and I think their cars call for 5-40 weight oil. The 15-40 for our diesel may make the difference.

South Lake: sounds like Bert's Diesel is a gem. We should all have such a fair and honest mechanic service around . . .

Gini

 

[Levitation]

Not picking on dealers as I have owned auto service shops in my nefarious past and I know what the overhead costs.
But, the most bang for the buck is the small independent mechanic or shop or mobile mechanic service truck.
Even a mechanic who does semi truck repairs can competently follow the service list and do a routine oil, filter,zincs and belt tension on a boat diesel. The cost will be half the dealer or less. Discuss that issue before hiring him.
These guys are blue collar and nine out of ten have a boat of some sort.
You order the approved oil, zincs, etc. ahead of time.
Have him give you a detailed, printed, bill of service. If Volvo, et. al. claim your warrantee is void for some reason down the road, the bill an d a small claims court judge will usually change their point of view.

Marinas/dealerships exist to make the owner money and even wealthy - capitalism at work. No rule says you have to help him.

 

[SGIDAVE]

David, on the Mityvac siphon pump, any issues with using it with synthetic? Amazon.com sells them, and several people commented that they had issues with leaking with synthetic. BUT, they were Mercedes Benz owners, and I think their cars call for 5-40 weight oil. The 15-40 for our diesel may make the difference.

South Lake: sounds like Bert's Diesel is a gem. We should all have such a fair and honest mechanic service around . . .

Gini

I've done at least 4 oil changes on MB diesels (i.e., synthetic 5W-40 oil) with NO leaking issues using that MityVac unit I linked to on Amazon. For at least 6 years prior I used a 6L Pella extractor that still works fine but due to the short stroke of the pump, it seems a lot more "work" to generate sufficient suction. The Mityvac is taller and the pump stroke longer, so you can achieve sufficient suction with seemingly less effort.

/david