ACR settings

[American Flyer]

After one month of ownership we are still getting to know the systems on our 2017 R 29 and have a question.

When on shore power we leave the house power on to run heaters and dehumidifier. From what I understand to date, should the shore power fail, the inverter, via the acr, will automatically take over and power the ac outlets via the batteries. Obviously this is not good in this instance. My question is; how do I temporarily disable the automatic power swap?

 

[dbsea]

I am sure there might be differences between ranger and cutwater systems, but this is not possible on the cutwater. The inverter is a manual switch, and its either on shore power mode, or inverter mode, or off. If the shore power fails while its in shore power mode, the AC outlets do not and will not work.

 

[American Flyer]

I am sure there might be differences between ranger and cutwater systems, but this is not possible on the cutwater. The inverter is a manual switch, and its either on shore power mode, or inverter mode, or off. If the shore power fails while its in shore power mode, the AC outlets do not and will not work.

Yes, they must be different. If I shut off the shore power, the 110 outlets continue to be powered and do run the heaters.

 

[GaylesFaerie]

I could be wrong and have a different year/model Ranger but as far as I know, the ACRs have nothing to do with the Inverter. The ACRs are used between battery banks, not a battery and the inverter. On my boat the Inverter is connected to the batteries through a red service switch.

IIRC, there are threads on Tugnuts discussing newer inverters that are wired in such a way and have a feature whereby if Shore Power cuts out, the inverter will automatically power up and draw its power from the batteries. Others will correct me if needed, I'm sure. Gary

 

[knotflying]

Gayle's Faerie is correct. The ACR's have nothing to do with the inverter. The promariner, often used by Ranger has an automatic transfer switch and cannot be programmed differently. The xantrex has a programable transfer switch.

 

[Chimo]

Our 2017 R25SC has separate inverter and chargers and I like it that way. If shore power fails I could lose the food in the fridge or heat. I prefer losing food to draining very expensive batteries.

 

[Gin]

For those with the Kisae Abso inverter/charger, the behavior of the inverter when shore power is cut off depends both on the inverter setting and your software.

On models without the latest software (like mine), the basic options are to have the inverter continue to power the AC outlets whether shore power is on or off. If shore power is off, the inverter is converting DC power from the batteries to do that. If you have any AC loads running (like a small heater, dehumidifiers, bilge heater, etc), the loss of shore power may quickly result in killing your house batteries. There is an alternative setting, though, that causes the inverter to shut off with the loss of shore power, so that AC loads are not depleting the house bank. But, it stays off when shore power comes back on. That can cause other problems if, for example, you are in the middle of a winter storm and using heat on board to keep things from freezing.

The newer Kisaes, with the latest software, have a setting that I wish mine had. When shore power goes off, the inverter stops, cutting off AC to all AC loads. But when shore power comes back on, the inverter comes back on too, and AC loads get power again. Unfortunately, the software is not upgradeable. I saw the 2000W Kisae on sale just recently for $329 (with free shipping, and the 3000W model for $349). It has had me thinking about replacing mine. I use my boat all winter, so rather than winterize it, I leave heat on board. Power outages are rare, but they happen, and I live an hour from the boat, so I can't necessarily get to it in bad weather to turn the AC loads off. The cost of a new Kisae would be a lot less than a new bank of AGM house batteries (even cheaper ones)!

Gini

 

[SJI Sailor]

+1 to Gini, it depends on the inverter model. On our 2019 C30 we have the Kisae with several options. I set it to "In0" which means that the inverter stays off in case of shore power loss, but it will pass through the AC. (The default In1 would turn on in case of power loss.)

IIRC there is also a setting for minimum battery voltage where it will turn off before depleting the batteries. Not sure since we almost never use it.

When setting the Kisae mode, be sure to follow the exact steps, super precisely, and double check them. It is easy to be fooled and think a setting was changed when it wasn't, usually in my case because I didn't hold a button long enough per the instructions, or held it too long.

 

[American Flyer]

Thanks for the info, learning lots of new stuff, but still do not know what I need to do.

Could someone from Ranger Tugs chime in and tell me if, and how, I can keep my batteries from discharging should I loose shore power? Seems like a simple concept and I am sure I am not the first person to have this concern.

I think the batteries will still charge with the main battery switches turned off, correct? So if I left the batteries disconnected via the switch, I assume the 110v shore power would still work, but the batteries would not power the inverter, right? If this is all correct, would this answer my question?

 

[Gin]

American Flyer, for more specific help, try posting your specific model of inverter/charger.

Gini

 

[American Flyer]

American Flyer, for more specific help, try posting your specific model of inverter/charger.

Ok, next time I get to the boat I’ll try and find it. But I would rather not permanently reprogram anything if possible. I am hoping it is just a matter of how to configure the switches when I leave the boat.

 

[knotflying]

American flier. I suggest that you thoroughly understand how your electrical systems works on your boat as a first step. Knowing the manufacturer and model number of all components and reading the manuals is a good start. Once you understand how things work on your particular boat setup, then you should have no problems. If you have a combo charger inverter that can be programed to not be on automatic for the transfer switch, then you will have to bite the bullet and do the programming. If you are not willing to do that then turn all your battery switches off and go home with peace of mind. There are always 24/7 systems that will have a minimal draw. Those are radio memory, propane sensor (if you have propane) and CO detector. If you have a solar panel then there will be no problem with that keeping up with the draw. Understanding how all your systems work and interact with one another is paramount to enjoyable boat ownership. The Ranger Tugs look "cute", but are just as complex as larger vessels. Many new owners think they can just start the engine and cruise away. Ranger has the new boat owner orientation and it could probably be twice as long to go over every system and location of important items. I don't know how many times the same questions come up about NMEA backbone locations, fuse locations, inverter usage, generator usage and the list goes on. This website has a plethora of information and is a great resource, but knowing your vessel and the component operations from the get go will save a lot of angst.

 

[CaspersCruiser]

I don't know how many times the same questions come up about NMEA backbone locations, fuse locations, inverter usage, generator usage and the list goes on.

These questions arise over and over and over because of the EXTREMELY poor manuals produced by Fluid Motion. They are rife with omissions and inaccuracies. According to the electrical schematic for my 2012 R27, the boat is not equipped with a windlass. The addendum page for the power distribution panels has at least one fuse location incorrect. Another is mislabeled. There is no mention of a NMEA backbone or its location. I realize that a NMEA backbone is for optional equipment, but the vast majority of boats leave the factory with that equipment. On my boat, the NMEA backbone is mounted on a panel behind the refrigerator which has to be removed to access it. Very handy. It would be next to impossible for an owner to figure out that NMEA backbone location.

 

[American Flyer]

American flier. I suggest that you thoroughly understand how your electrical systems works on your boat as a first step. Knowing the manufacturer and model number of all components and reading the manuals is a good start. Once you understand how things work on your particular boat setup, then you should have no problems. If you have a combo charger inverter that can be programed to not be on automatic for the transfer switch, then you will have to bite the bullet and do the programming. If you are not willing to do that then turn all your battery switches off and go home with peace of mind. There are always 24/7 systems that will have a minimal draw. Those are radio memory, propane sensor (if you have propane) and CO detector. If you have a solar panel then there will be no problem with that keeping up with the draw. Understanding how all your systems work and interact with one another is paramount to enjoyable boat ownership. The Ranger Tugs look "cute", but are just as complex as larger vessels. Many new owners think they can just start the engine and cruise away. Ranger has the new boat owner orientation and it could probably be twice as long to go over every system and location of important items. I don't know how many times the same questions come up about NMEA backbone locations, fuse locations, inverter usage, generator usage and the list goes on. This website has a plethora of information and is a great resource, but knowing your vessel and the component operations from the get go will save a lot of angst.

knotflying. I suggest you read and understand the question before you scold and berate the author. I would LOVE to read and understand “The Manual”! IF I ONLY HAD ONE! You see, those of us not as fortunate as you have boats we bought used. The previous owners may not have been as perfect as you are and may not have passed any manuals they might have had on to the new owners! I am pretty confident that I could read and understand ANY technical manual almost as good as you can should you wish to forward them to me. I deal with systems many levels above those on this boat on a daily basis with no problem. Learning these systems without manuals will be a long tedious process that will not happen instantly. I am working my way through them with help from people on this forum who understand that. This is “the first step”. Someday I hope to understand them almost as good as you do! In the mean time I certainly DO NOT appreciate your “holier than thou” diatribe. Your answer is totally bereft of any useful information. In the future, if you cannot understand the question, or answer it cordially and precisely, please refrain from answering at all. It will save me a lot of angst.

 

[marksandyham]

American Flyer,
I don't know Knotflying personally but have read several of his posts. I would say on average I would give him an "A" for content but sometimes they do come off condescending (I know because my wife tells me I have the same problem).

The basic owners manuals for most of the boats are downloadable from this site or Fluid Motions site. I have found like many manufactures they do change models of key components and have had to pull some from the internet.

Also I have seen many others post "get to know your boat" comments and I have read many posts where I wondered how they were able to leave the dock. Every time I get to the point I think i really know my boat it surprises me and usually it was something simple I just forgot.

PS. Knotflying, I will PM you with the address to send the $20 for giving you an "A" 😉

 

[CruisingElvinRay]

If you’re worried about your batteries draining by the inverter if you lose shore power and don’t want to download the KISAE manual for your inverter, you could simply test it. Plug into shore power. Turn on your 120V appliance or outlet with something plugged into it. Turn off the breaker at the pedestal to simulate a power outage. See if the 120V appliance or outlets stay on.

Keep in mind that any 12V devices you have will also draw power unless you have the house battery switch off. At that point, only your 24/7 devices (bilge pumps, CO detectors, etc… will draw power from the house bank.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SJI Sailor]

IMHO most of us are somewhere in the middle here. There are basics we must know for safety and maintenance, and then there are many, many more things that we figure out as needed. That information comes from many sources and I keep learning new things. (Just recently discovered that my C30 has electric rather than hydraulic trim tabs, for example -- the boat came new without a manual for them and I never thought much about them until they stopped working.)

As Caspers noted, the FM manuals are minimal. As part of owning a boat of these kind, we can expect quite a bit of maintenance. Some of us find that fun, others don't and prefer to pay mechanics, and others are a mix of both sides. I enjoy some projects like electronics and don't enjoy (and mostly can't reach) others like bilge pumps.

As for learning more, some good resources are:

1. Record model numbers of components and Google their manuals.
2. As the wheel turns videos from Fluid Motion
3. Other YouTube channels such as Martin's (Channel Surfing) and Robin Shoop (IIRC) especially the orientation one
4. Search the archives here for keywords
5. Post questions here
6. Hire a captain familiar with the vessels for a day or two of systems training. There are several on here (hi, Captain John Gray!)

And one that I think is very helpful but often overlooked:

7. Manuals that charter companies provide to their clients. For example, try searches like "San Juan Sailing ranger 31 owners guide" and "charter ranger 31 owners guide"

Is that a lot? Yeah. Are our boats a lot? Also, yeah. For anyone discouraged, stick in there!

 

[MV Toujours]

For those with the Kisae Abso inverter/charger, the behavior of the inverter when shore power is cut off depends both on the inverter setting and your software.

On models without the latest software (like mine), the basic options are to have the inverter continue to power the AC outlets whether shore power is on or off. If shore power is off, the inverter is converting DC power from the batteries to do that. If you have any AC loads running (like a small heater, dehumidifiers, bilge heater, etc), the loss of shore power may quickly result in killing your house batteries. There is an alternative setting, though, that causes the inverter to shut off with the loss of shore power, so that AC loads are not depleting the house bank. But, it stays off when shore power comes back on. That can cause other problems if, for example, you are in the middle of a winter storm and using heat on board to keep things from freezing.

The newer Kisaes, with the latest software, have a setting that I wish mine had. When shore power goes off, the inverter stops, cutting off AC to all AC loads. But when shore power comes back on, the inverter comes back on too, and AC loads get power again. Unfortunately, the software is not upgradeable. I saw the 2000W Kisae on sale just recently for $329 (with free shipping, and the 3000W model for $349). It has had me thinking about replacing mine. I use my boat all winter, so rather than winterize it, I leave heat on board. Power outages are rare, but they happen, and I live an hour from the boat, so I can't necessarily get to it in bad weather to turn the AC loads off. The cost of a new Kisae would be a lot less than a new bank of AGM house batteries (even cheaper ones)!

Gini

Gini,

I am 15 min from your boat. Call me anytime if you need.

Patrick

 

[Gin]

Patrick, I will! That is, as long as you are in the area if and when a disabling winter storm strikes. When we last talked, it sounded like you may be in Florida or the Bahamas when winter next comes around. But if you are in Portland, I will take you up on your kind offer if there's a need!

Meanwhile, hope you are having a great trip north right now!

Gini

 

[Nwdiver]

And I am a bit north of you, in Beaverton. I am a newbie (wantabe till August) boater, but I am available if you need me.