Batteries

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pohanian

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Sep 26, 2018
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Fluid Motion Model
R-23 (Sterndrive)
Hull Identification Number
FMLC3031K516
Vessel Name
Defense Rests
I got the unexpected news yesterday...I need 2 new house batteries for my 2016 C-30. Ugh, an unexpected expense. I was provided 2 options, Lifeline 8D AGM @ $1355 each or West Marine 8D AGM @ $889 each, plus 8 hours labor. Any thoughts on which battery to choose? Why is there such a big difference between the two? Also, does 8 hours labor to replace 2 batteries seem reasonable? They are also recommending replacing the engine and thruster batteries at the same time. Battery cost it the same but the labor is only two additional hours. I appreciate your thoughts! How do these batteries compare to the factory batteries? The boat spends most of its time plugged into shore power.
 
Good morning. A couple of comments. The layout of the C30 S is virtually the same as the R29CB. You should have four house batteries, not two. And you are likely to have the UB121100 AGM batteries in there as well, at least for the house and thruster. Given the size of your engine, I hope someone put a higher CCA battery start engine.

So bottom line, you should replace all four house batteries at the same time. One bad cell in one battery can draw all the rest down. Also, I can tell you that the Universal Power batteries that the factory puts in are mediocre in quality. You got four years out of yours, which appears about right when you go on the web. Some get more, some get less. The Lifeline and other more expensive batteries have a better reputation and are likely to last longer.

Your quote on price of batteries makes more sense for FOUR rather than cost for each. I replaced all four UB121100 AGM batteries through Northern Arizona Wind&Sun for a total cost, including shipping, of less than $700. So something is fishy in the math here and you should get a lot of clarity from the marina.

Finally, getting these batteries out of their impossibly cramped storage area is a pain in the transom and will take an electrician a while. Mostly because they weigh 65 lbs and you have to find a way to wire them up while upside down in the lazarette. I hope there is an access hole underneath your cockpit fridge. It makes things much easier. But, having said that, 8 hours is about twice what it should take in my view. As I say, something fishy here. I recommend you get another estimate.

Finally, as Mike and others will tell you a much cheaper option is wet cell batteries. Even though you have to service them (top up the water) they are less cost and last just about as long as the cheap Universal Power AGM batteries.

Hope that helps.

jeff
 
If you decide to move to wet cell batteries for the four house battery set you need also replace the starter and thruster batteries with wet cell (aka flooded) batteries. You should not mix AGM type with wet cell type. All of one or the other but not a mix.
PS: The cost to replace my four Group 27 East Penn made house batteries and thruster and engine batteries (92AHr) would be $800 plus four hours labor.
If moving to wet cells you may need to change the charge settings on your battery charger and solar controller. Check the manuals for both to be sure.
 
I have a 2014 C30, I recently replaced all 6 of my batteries (4 house, 1 starter, 1 thruster). I went with Optima D31M batteries (about $320CDN each).
I did the work my self (take pictures of the configuration as there are a lot of connections). The area is very cramped and everything is really heavy. The batters sit on a large piece of plywood that you can drag further to the stern so that you have more access thru the access panel (there are 2 screws holding the plywood).
The DIY is not hard, its just a bit cramped and those bloody batteries are heavy.
 
Reading back on the marinas recommendation, it seems like they want to remove all four of your existing Group 27 sized house batteries and replace those four with two monster sized 8D batteries. That would involve rewiring and possibly putting in new battery trays and straps. No wonder they are thinking 8 hours of labor.
Not sure what benefit you get going from four Group 27 sized batteries to a pair of the 150 pounds each 8D size?!? Other than the 8Ds are so heavy you might need a team to ever get them out. At 225-250 AHrs for the 8D you are only getting a bit of a boost over two 100 AHr Group 27 sized batteries.
If it were me I’d stick with the Group 27 sized batteries.
 
Sorry. My error. I did not read carefully that they want to switch you over to 8D batteries. You really don't gain all that much in Ah for that changeover and you pay a lot more as far as I can tell. There are other reasons to go with the big battery, but this is still worth getting a second bid. The simplest and least expensive approach is to just replace the four house batteries. And the earlier post is right, to switch over to the 8D batteries is going to require removal of the old trays and snaps and installation of new ones. There is also the awkward geometry of the start battery in all of this. On my 29 there are three 31 AGMs lined up bow to stern in the forward end of the battery compartment and then two more 31 AGMs--one house, one start--lined up perpendicular. This makes a nice fit. And probably saves 4 hours of labor (assuming $150/hour that is real money). And finally, go online and you will see that they are charging way too much for the batteries they want to sell you. At minimum, you can order them yourself and save a lot.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I became more knowledgeable as a result. I spoke with the boat yard and found out that they were going to replace the 4 house batteries with 2 larger batteries. So, as scross stated, the excess labor was to rewire and retrofit for the larger batteries. Once I saw how heavy the 8D batteries are, I decided that it was not a good choice. I would never be able to replace them myself if I had to. The boat yard is looking at alternatives, going with the 4 batteries. I am in agreement with them that we want to improve the quality over the factory supplied batteries.
 
If you got 3 1/2 to 4 years out of the factory AGM batteries you did OK. Not great, but OK. If by “improve the quality” you mean going for batteries with more AHrs and more CCAs that makes sense. But I would not expect to a whole lot more life out of a different brand of AGM batteries compared to your old AGMs just because the new brand was more expensive.
 
you've had me pondering what I would do in your situation. so heres just a few thoughts.

1. the charging mechanisms on our boats are not the most kind to batteries, so I dont think it matters if you buy the most expensive AGMs vs the universals installed by the factory. I love the phrase I read here today on tugnuts: batteries dont die; they are murdered. its so true.
2. Ive considered the lifeline AGM's a few times but get stuck on the price (for the group 31's) over the universal. they are over twice the price. The question is whether the universals are at their limit for CCA for the D6 435 in the bigger C30 over my C28 (unless you are outboards which would make this moot?)
3. I think id probably go with the universals if I could.
4. I dont think I would go anywhere near the 8D upgrade. the only reason to spend that much money and do a rewire is to go lithium with all its benefits. for $2.5K you could have a full lithium setup. This is an option i have come close to pulling the trigger on. more power, faster charging, less weight, plus the tinkering enjoyment of getting this option to work.
 
Purchased 4 online and they arrived on a pallet in 2 days (even though I selected ground shipping which was FREE). I plan to install them this weekend.

https://www.solar-electric.com/upg-univ ... ttery.html

I had the engine and thruster batteries replaced this spring by a local shop and they charged me 2x the battery cost and 4 hours @ $150. After research, I realized I was taken advantage of and decided to do the 4 house batteries myself.
 
When the original Group 31 AGM batteries on my R27 finally gave up the ghost, I replaced them with group 27's from a local deep cycle battery dealer. They are a Chinese brand (horrors) - Leoch. Specification wise they are close to Lifelines at about $150 cheaper per battery. The four ran just shy of $900. I moved from the group 31's to the 27's to remove some weight from the aft port quarter of the boat. I like having the exhaust higher out of the water when at rest. I think all things considered I only decreased total capacity on the house by 20 amp hours. Since the boat spends 95% of it's time dockside, it should be at least three to four years before I finally "murder" them.
I gave serious consideration to following Knotflying's philosophy and going to Walmart for Interstate flooded batteries. Only reason not was that I would probably kill the flooded batteries in about two years where I can get maybe four out of the AGM's so cost equals out with one less labor effort.
 
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