Buy or Run? A 2010 R25 In Rough Shape

If your able to do the necessary work yourself you got a good buy there. They're great little boats. I've got the same model boat/engine. Parts are readily available on-line. Ended up putting 2500 hrs on it. Though still running decided to replace it this off season. If you limit it to 80 percent power output(power not rpm) it should still have plenty of life in it. I'd replace all of the raw water and exhaust hose. While you're at it closely inspect the mixing can on exhaust of the turbo. On my boat they had installed the hose in such a way that there was a lot of torque on the mixing can and it ultimately cracked from the stress and vibration. From your pics it looks like yours may be the same. When you replace the hose make sure it's routed properly and doesn't put a load on the exhaust.

Certainly I'd replace the timing belt. Assuming it's never been done it's certainly due. And consequences of failure are high. If you're reasonably mechanically inclined it can be done. Get a copy of the repair manual. It has a pretty thorough procedure in it. The specialized tools to facilitate the job can be found on-line for a couple hundred dollars.

You can download the electrical drawings from the site here. I assume they're still here somewhere. They're mostly accurate. If you have basic DC electrical skills you can trace everything out and redline the drawings for what minor differences you find. The battery banks on mine were numbered different than the drawings.

I've been through about everything on the boat that there is. Feel free to PM me if you run across anything puzzling. These early model boats weren't all built the same but reasonably close. Enjoy the boat.
 
A few updates. It is going slow as I am also reworking a classic 1980's Sisu 26, so my time is split. Not such a bad thing as the timing / serpentine belts were backordered and just came in the 1st week of May.
Cleaning was days and days and days. Just filthy.

Compost toilet is in. I have used these for years in my Canadian cottages and they work well. Best of all, they don't stink like a typical marine head / holding tank. Yes, a little more effort on occasion but longer intervals between servicing. Since the boat had no Wallas stove in it, the vent through hull became a nice short run simple replacement vent for the compost toilet. I will pick up the holding tank space aft. Perfect for fenders, lines etc. once I remove the tank.

I have yet to replace the starboard trim tab plate and piston, but this week likely. Not an expensive repair parts wise.

The engine just clicked over the last tenth to 500 hours. It appears it had the original fuel filter based on the white overspray on it from when the engine was painted. Pretty sad...

The oil and filter certainly looked original, but no way to tell. It'll take a few consecutive changes to get most of that truly replaced.

Given what I have seen so far, it might be the original impeller? Regardless, swapped it out for new.

For some reason the alternator was wired (badly) to the "house" battery bank, not the starting battery bank. Given the ACR relays are cascaded from the starting battery to the house batteries to the thruster battery- that made no sense? The ACR shows an in and out side, maybe they don't care if wired in reverse? I don't know? Regardless, the alternator cable was under-sized and literally fell out of the crimp connector holding it to the alternator output. Very shoddy....

Along with that there was no direct ground between the engine and the start battery (or any other battery). It grounded (sort of), but the starter was intermittent. There is not much "pressure" electrically speaking with a 12v system. (Hopefully 12v vehicle electrics will go away some day soon.) I dug out the starter and had my local starter / alternator shop go over them. The motors identity seems to be very top secret, but the solenoid is a Delco. The guy is an old hand at his job and it was no problem other than he could find no cross reference for the motor. Very rare not to be able to find out the original source. Back installed with nice new clean grounds (always clean the grounds on your vehicles) and she spins a little better and works well now.

There were also some insane wiring jobs done elsewhere on the vessel up to and including live, unfused wires laying in the bilge, insanely wired shower sump and on and on. I even found an old used undone coat hangar lying in the space above the fuel tank quietly rusting away. A "drag" used to pull in the unfused wires I found in the bilge no doubt. It's a wonder the boat did not burn down? Maybe we adopted 12v systems to keep us safe from amateur electricians?

The hull is not remedied yet but a few samples showed it cleaning up without sanding. Whether that effort (when completed) will last is TBD, but for this year she remains red and will hopefully last the season before a redo is required.

I reworked the battery / house supplies. She has a single AGM start battery and dual AGM thruster batteries. They work via the combine switch, so it should never be w/o enough juice to crank. It is overkill but the batteries were brand new, so what the hell. I also run other small loads (like the compost toilet fan, stereo off of the dual thruster battery setup). These banks are now wired correctly to work separate or together (for starting issues) and have the ACR relay device that ties them together when the engine is running to keep them charged via the alternator. In addition- I put in a 230ah lithium "House" battery. It runs the house (or hotel) loads, and runs a 1.6kw Victron inverter to run my electric Cuisinart cast iron hot plate. It has a 40amp Victron DC to DC charger which is tied to the oversized thruster battery bank and when the engine starts, so does it, which tells me the ACR / Victron alternator charging system is working fine. Lithium batteries will eat a conventional alternator system for lunch. The DC to DC charger keeps everybody playing nice. A 75/15 12v Victron solar charge controller ties the Lithium house battery to the 200 watts of rooftop solar. I can run my hot plate or my replacement 4 gallon electric water heater (yes, the original water heater did leak I discoverd after fixing the other leaks in the system). That's an either / or situation, I cannot run both together, which is worth the trouble from my perspective. All of the electrical system is fused carefully from end to end (excluding the starter motor circuit). The house bank may yet grow, but I'll let time and experience with it determine that.

Owner mischief, neglect and lack of hygiene aside, there is hope. Her lack of use and covered shed dock has saved her some aging. There are a number of other niggling, weird fixes and alterations that need undoing or redoing. She will never be 100% stock, but with 500 hours on her engine and 80-120hrs. of my time, she should turn out to be a decent platform for some summer explorations. Once she is cleaned up I'll post some pictures.

Overall I would not describe the process as fun. Parts of it are. It takes a lot of time to learn a new boat and its systems, even more to undo owner meddling. This boat is a pain in the ass to work on / in as it is large "liner" interior which requires lots of careful cutting into to attain access to all of the hidden plumbing, wiring and other systems. All crammed into a road legal narrow beam vessel. In short, 10 pounds of **** in a 9 pound bag. But now at least, it doesn't smell like it.
 
Bro, the zincs have been shot for years. You can't see or fix a large majority of the damage.
 
?? No, the zincs were fine. All new going on before going in. What was on it had plenty of life.
 
That sounds very interesting. Not sure why the zincs would be serviced but everything else was severely neglected??
 
A few updates. It is going slow as I am also reworking a classic 1980's Sisu 26, so my time is split. Not such a bad thing as the timing / serpentine belts were backordered and just came in the 1st week of May.
Cleaning was days and days and days. Just filthy.

Compost toilet is in. I have used these for years in my Canadian cottages and they work well. Best of all, they don't stink like a typical marine head / holding tank. Yes, a little more effort on occasion but longer intervals between servicing. Since the boat had no Wallas stove in it, the vent through hull became a nice short run simple replacement vent for the compost toilet. I will pick up the holding tank space aft. Perfect for fenders, lines etc. once I remove the tank.

I have yet to replace the starboard trim tab plate and piston, but this week likely. Not an expensive repair parts wise.

The engine just clicked over the last tenth to 500 hours. It appears it had the original fuel filter based on the white overspray on it from when the engine was painted. Pretty sad...

The oil and filter certainly looked original, but no way to tell. It'll take a few consecutive changes to get most of that truly replaced.

Given what I have seen so far, it might be the original impeller? Regardless, swapped it out for new.

For some reason the alternator was wired (badly) to the "house" battery bank, not the starting battery bank. Given the ACR relays are cascaded from the starting battery to the house batteries to the thruster battery- that made no sense? The ACR shows an in and out side, maybe they don't care if wired in reverse? I don't know? Regardless, the alternator cable was under-sized and literally fell out of the crimp connector holding it to the alternator output. Very shoddy....

Along with that there was no direct ground between the engine and the start battery (or any other battery). It grounded (sort of), but the starter was intermittent. There is not much "pressure" electrically speaking with a 12v system. (Hopefully 12v vehicle electrics will go away some day soon.) I dug out the starter and had my local starter / alternator shop go over them. The motors identity seems to be very top secret, but the solenoid is a Delco. The guy is an old hand at his job and it was no problem other than he could find no cross reference for the motor. Very rare not to be able to find out the original source. Back installed with nice new clean grounds (always clean the grounds on your vehicles) and she spins a little better and works well now.

There were also some insane wiring jobs done elsewhere on the vessel up to and including live, unfused wires laying in the bilge, insanely wired shower sump and on and on. I even found an old used undone coat hangar lying in the space above the fuel tank quietly rusting away. A "drag" used to pull in the unfused wires I found in the bilge no doubt. It's a wonder the boat did not burn down? Maybe we adopted 12v systems to keep us safe from amateur electricians?

The hull is not remedied yet but a few samples showed it cleaning up without sanding. Whether that effort (when completed) will last is TBD, but for this year she remains red and will hopefully last the season before a redo is required.

I reworked the battery / house supplies. She has a single AGM start battery and dual AGM thruster batteries. They work via the combine switch, so it should never be w/o enough juice to crank. It is overkill but the batteries were brand new, so what the hell. I also run other small loads (like the compost toilet fan, stereo off of the dual thruster battery setup). These banks are now wired correctly to work separate or together (for starting issues) and have the ACR relay device that ties them together when the engine is running to keep them charged via the alternator. In addition- I put in a 230ah lithium "House" battery. It runs the house (or hotel) loads, and runs a 1.6kw Victron inverter to run my electric Cuisinart cast iron hot plate. It has a 40amp Victron DC to DC charger which is tied to the oversized thruster battery bank and when the engine starts, so does it, which tells me the ACR / Victron alternator charging system is working fine. Lithium batteries will eat a conventional alternator system for lunch. The DC to DC charger keeps everybody playing nice. A 75/15 12v Victron solar charge controller ties the Lithium house battery to the 200 watts of rooftop solar. I can run my hot plate or my replacement 4 gallon electric water heater (yes, the original water heater did leak I discoverd after fixing the other leaks in the system). That's an either / or situation, I cannot run both together, which is worth the trouble from my perspective. All of the electrical system is fused carefully from end to end (excluding the starter motor circuit). The house bank may yet grow, but I'll let time and experience with it determine that.

Owner mischief, neglect and lack of hygiene aside, there is hope. Her lack of use and covered shed dock has saved her some aging. There are a number of other niggling, weird fixes and alterations that need undoing or redoing. She will never be 100% stock, but with 500 hours on her engine and 80-120hrs. of my time, she should turn out to be a decent platform for some summer explorations. Once she is cleaned up I'll post some pictures.

Overall I would not describe the process as fun. Parts of it are. It takes a lot of time to learn a new boat and its systems, even more to undo owner meddling. This boat is a pain in the ass to work on / in as it is large "liner" interior which requires lots of careful cutting into to attain access to all of the hidden plumbing, wiring and other systems. All crammed into a road legal narrow beam vessel. In short, 10 pounds of **** in a 9 pound bag. But now at least, it doesn't smell like it.
What composting head did you put in? I have an Airhead that I’d like to get installed before is start my season.
 
What composting head did you put in? I have an Airhead that I’d like to get installed before is start my season.
Natures Head. Used the left side vent (facing toilet) and ran it to a thru hull fitting above the water line. (I used the hole for the Wallis Stove vent since there was no Wallis Stove in the boat. I little time w/ the Dremel and a nice bronze 1-1/4" fitting worked nicely with the vent hose supplied with the head. It ran under the cabinet shelf in the adjacent cabinet, and i put an upward loop before the thru-hull to keep and splashed water out. Nice, clean setup. Where the holding tank was will become storage.
 
A few Pix of upgrades.
Natures Head.jpeg
Small of Hull.jpeg
Victron.jpeg
 
June 22 Updates on this vessel.

Sanded, compounded and waxed the hull and two coats of bottom paint. Bottom paint was in excellent condition. (Another curiosity given the neglect overall of the boat. Certain items were cared for. Most not.)
With a good light compounding and wax in autumn then again next spring, It might hold on to what it's got. The white is all fine, the red of course is a bad color for longevity. But as the picture shows- it came up pretty good for an 18 yr. old boat.

Head came out well, as did the new lithium power supply / inverter system. All works fine. Victron are the goods....

Rebuilt the starter and repaired all the known wiring issues, which were many.

The raw water pump was shot.... completely.... as in 1 bearing was nothing but races stuck in the unit. How it spun is a mystery, but it did. Approx. $500 for the rebuild kit or $650 for all new. A Sherwood pump, so easily sourced w/o Mercury's "vig" added which raised the price another $50 bucks or so. I can likely find the bearings and seals that fit, so a good winter project will be to clean it up, install new parts and have a shelf spare.
A word of caution to you owners with a QSD engine. The plastic (yes PLASTIC!) pulley on the water pump had multiple stress fractures in the body radiating from the bolt holes outward. $120 bucks to get a new PLASTIC pulley. Insane.... but this is the world we live in where plastics replace known products that will last a lifetime just to save a few dollars. Shame on the engineers.

She is getting cleaner perpetually and with a few more douches the last lingering odors should be gone. With an open hatch in the head there is no odor, only when left closed up (in the heat). Urine on the underside of the floor that went down the opening for the original head plumbing is my guess. My weed sprayer has been redeployed for urine odor cleaner duty to get bilge clean under the floor. Now with the Natures Head you have to sit to pee, so aim and splatter issues with the male sailors is not an issue. So if you wanna stand- go elsewhere.

Smell removal accomplished there is not much hope for bringing the monkey fur hull lining back from showing its age. It is clean, but it is not new boat clean. Anyone with an older boat will likely have some of these same issues. Soft goods on a boat are nice but not a good idea from a longevity perspective if the owners are not meticulous.

Repacked the stuffing box which actually looked like it had new flax in it, but when it is on the hard, get it done if you don't know. The engine has been fully serviced, cleaned and sorted out. It now fires up almost instantly and purrs. I have not taken it beyond 3k rpm out of caution given the timing belts age. I'll resolve that issue this week. Took forever to get the belt... then the mechanic flaked out so I put it in the water anyway (tired of paying for a slip and land storage due to the bad business practices of the mechanic). I run it slow until I fix it once and for all.

Motor mounts are on the agenda for final prep and repainting. They look bad, but they are fine underneath the scaling paint and visible rust. They are hearty.

Exhaust rehabbed, it too looked bad, likely from excessive leaking of the stuffing box which toasted much of the paint on the transmission and motor mounts etc. She had a new turbo installed recently by the previous owner, probably a premature failing caused by water spray. Fortunately, engines and transmissions are not cognizant of their appearance.... they are working fine despite the neglect they suffered. They cracked 500 hours the other day.... the perishables that reside in and on them are fixed or replaced and so she is a happy girl. That was the plan all along and it is always satisfying to bring a boat back to good or better condition. Soon enough she'll get her first real cruise and we'll actually see how she works as a boat.

All told about a month of full time labor on my part. I only paid to have the local fiberglass guy do the hull sanding / compounding etc. A time thief of a job to be sure and it was with an abundance of caution due to the thinness of the remaining red gelcoat. Not cheap, but fair considering the man hours it took them.

All told about $60k in for what has become a nice example of a 2008 25 classic. There won't be a lot of margin if I were to sell her, maybe recoup minimum wage for my time at best, all the more reason to hold on to her and have some fun.
 
Looks good. That is the way to buy a Ranger or Cutwater. Cheap and rebuild. You know what you have and don't have the price remorse ! I purchased a new Cutwater in 2016 and spent hours during the first three seasons repairing and customizing and restoring. The Gel that Fluid motion used back then was poor quality. It required endless hours to keep the shine maintained. I have seen much newer hulls then yours that did not recover as good as yours did. You have a nice boat now enjoy and be proud. Rangers and Cutwaters of old! The classic inboards are are always head turners and if in good maintained condition will give hours of enjoyment and good returns when your ready to sell. Nice Job and safe sailing!
 
Sounds like you have a love for labor. I suffer from the same affliction.

The replaced turbo is a sign that the previous owner ran her hard. On those engines the turbo seems to be the first point of failure. Once you get her out you'll get an idea if there is further wear by the amount of oil in the breather and if the main seal leaks at higher rpm.

Just a heads up that hatch over your battery and chargers is a notorious leaker. You'll want to avoid heavy spray from a washdown pump or bucket. Also a slight port list will make it leak in the corner against the cabin. I've had a project on my list for years to redesign that hatch but it never rises to top of the list. I moved everything that reacts poorly to salt water out of there.
 
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