C30 lock to lock steering

[racurry@unb.ca]

Hi - My new to me 2016 C30S has good steering response, and has the garmin AP fix, but I don't have a lock to either port or starboard steering, the wheel slows at full rudder, but then keeps turning. Ideas? Allen

 

[Bruce Moore]

Bumping post delayed in moderation queue.

 

[dbsea]

Do you have the garmin check valve installed? its a rectangular shaped metal box that is likely in your starboard lazarette. that is what enables the steering lock.

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Yes the garmin fix is in place.

 

[Ralf H]

Hi Allen,

Your system may need a bleed. Not sure if the boat has been sitting for a while, but first turn all of your helms lock to lock (about three turns either way from centered, considering you are not getting a full lock) and see if you get the lock back. I would also check fluid levels. All helm units should have fluid levels that just cover the gears inside the pump housing. If it is below that, you will need to add. Hope this helps get you started.

Cheers,

Ralf

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

OK I will check.

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Hi Allen,

Your system may need a bleed. Not sure if the boat has been sitting for a while, but first turn all of your helms lock to lock (about three turns either way from centered, considering you are not getting a full lock) and see if you get the lock back. I would also check fluid levels. All helm units should have fluid levels that just cover the gears inside the pump housing. If it is below that, you will need to add. Hope this helps get you started.

Cheers,

Ralf

Completed - It made no difference. The service folks said there was no air in system that could cause a problem
What next??

 

[Full_O_Fish]

Does your C30 have power assist steering? I have dealt with more than a couple vessels where this same system is the case, but only while the power assist pump is turned on/running. Easy check is to turn off all the battery switches and try turning the wheel from lock to lock. In most cases it will lock out properly, then as soon as you turn on the ignition or power source for the power steering you will get a slowing of the wheel but never a full lock to lock.

There are a few ways this can happen... Fouled check valves in the power steering pump, slightly sticking valves in the helm pump which requires more pressure to seat properly than is available when the assist is running, and lastly the most common I've seen which is the autopilot pump having been installed on the helm side of the power assist unit (easy test for this is to keep the engine off so power assist is off, then turn the pilot on and try to have the pilot go from lock to lock which should take around 8 seconds. Then repeat with the engine on and see if it's about the same.)

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

OK I will try these tests next.

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Ultraflex hydraulic. Ok so all batteries off and while stiffer, but I can still push it through the lock port and starboard. I’ve ordered a new Garmin CheckValve but it is a guess? The other things you mention are beyond my skill set so not sure what I do beyond trying this check valve replacement????

 

[Full_O_Fish]

If you had some small air bubbles in your lines, then after reaching the expected "lock" point you would be able to turn the wheel further though it would be stiff; however, it would keep getting stiffer till it truly "locks" or skips due to reaching the bypass pressure and this wouldn't typically be more than one more rotation. So if you wheel got stiffer but just keeps going then you have a problem with a check valve... But it could be any of the following: the helm valves, the power assist pump valves, or the Garmin "fix" check valve block.

You can easily test to see if it's the helm valves by doing the following: turn on all the power and ignition so both the autopilot and the power steering pumps are active, then put the pilot into dealer calibration and select steering setup. Then select verify steering direction and use one of the arrow keys to drive the autopilot till the rudder has reached full lock. Continue to press the arrow just a second or two more and the sound of the pump will likely change as the pressure builds past normal level. Now observe the steering wheel and see if there is any movement, and if the wheel slowly spins then you have either a damaged/faulty/clogged check valve inside the helm and it should be rebuilt to hopefully fix the steering issue. If the wheel stays put, then the issue likely is with either the power steering pump or the Garmin check valve block

You could go one step further and check to see if it's the power steering pump but this is a bit more involved and depends on which autopilot pump you have. On the non-smartpump models there are three needle valves (look like brass screws) in the front of the pump manifold where the hoses attach. If you screw all of these fully in (clockwise) they will seal off the autopilot pump and check valve kit from the rest of the steering system. You must note exactly how many turns of each screw it took to shut them as afterwords you will need to return them to as close as possible to their original positions or the floor rates for the pilot will be changed. Once the pilot is effectively sealed off just turn the wheel at the helm and see if you get a proper lock, and if it still continues to turn, then the issue likely lies with the power steering pump.

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Ok so complex for me but I will try it. If I can get a technician to do this I would feel better sadly there are none close by in Hamilton Ontario Canada. I’m feeling a bit hung out by the manufacturer on this because this issue is not unique to me and the solution is not an easy fix for a relatively new boat.

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Next, I locked out the autopilot with the 2 screws. I now have lock to lock steering, but of course I have no autopilot. This suggest my issue is back farther in the Garmin autopilot unit or in the check valve behind it???

 

[Full_O_Fish]

That would indicate that your "Garmin Fix" aka the check valve block is no longer working as a check valve.

The pump we can assume always has some bypass, hence the necessity for the check valve block. If it worked properly the other wouldn't be necessary.

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Check valve replacement tomorrow!

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Ok so replaced bypass and still no lock to lock. Tried everything else but still the same - any more ideas to get my lock to lock and keep my autopilot?

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

Everything listed now complete and still no lock to lock?

 

[racurry@unb.ca]

An update on the steering issues for my 2016 C30 Sedan.
1) Tried all the fixes known to tugnuts plus the good advice offered, and tried others outside the tugnut world - nothing worked.
2) Replaced Garmin autopilot pump because one of the plugs lost a brass coupler - one of the 5 pin plugs - and there is no plug replacement, including Garmin who would only send me an entire new unit (at least it was discounted with a return of the old to them 😉 [1.2-Liter Pump Kit, 010-00705-64]
3) Tech removed my bypass valve during installation - the by-pass we all installed to fix the well-known steerage issue - https://support.garmin.com/en-CA/?partN ... ab=manuals
(plus I did multiple bleeds of lines over several months of trying to fix the issue).
4) I now have lock to lock just like it should be 😀

So, in my case it appears that the check valve wasn't the solution at the end of the day, and a new autopilot pump without a check valve corrected the issue.