Filling R27 diesel fuel tank

Retirement Dream

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Retirement Dream
I have owned diesel pickups for years and have never had a problem with diesel foam coming out of the tank when I am dieseling up at the station. I've only had to fill my R27 3 times now and every time I have made a horrendous mess with foam coming out of the intake pipe. I am told that two of the reasons for this might be that: 1) I am filling the tank too quickly. 2) The fuel input system in a truck is significantly different than on a boat and that is what causes part of the problem.

The previous owner installed some sort of device that whistles when the tank is being filled, but failed to tell me if the whistling means I am filling too fast; if I should stop when the whistling starts???

Has anyone modified their fuel input line so that it is like the one on a truck that doesn't foam no matter how fast I fill the tank? What did you have to do and was it worth the time/expense?

Also, does anyone know what this whistle thing is trying to tell me?

Thanks,
Scott
 
This explains how the whistle works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFf8vTkski0
You do need to fuel the boat slowly, sometimes stopping to let the foam settle down. Take a look at the vent line, follow it to the tank and make sure there are no dips in it. Do the same for the fuel fill line, my boat had a very slight uphill incline in the fill line inside the engine compartment and a dip in the vent line. Eliminating those has made all the difference in the world fueling the boat.
 
Rwnorton":2c7d7tcs said:
I’ve had the same problem until I bought and used one of these

https://www.cleanwayfuelfill.com

Works as advertised.

Did you remove the chain that holds the cap? The pictures seem to imply you screw the fuelfill into the threaded opening, I'm assuming it won't provide the seal required if the chain was still attached to the cap.
 
I removed my chain. And I don’t “screw” my clean way into the fuel tank opening, it’s soft enough rubbber to just push it into place. Next time I’ll consider “screwing” it into place.
 
I like this devise and will purchase one. It looks like it should be standard equipment for Tugs and Cuts with the tank design in 25 and 27 tugs and 26C and 28C. I'm not sure of how the tank designs are in the rest of the line. I have made revisions to the fuel and vent line runs in my boat. First repair was the fuel fill hose was crushed during assembly. The bulkhead between the cave and the engine compartment was to long .When this component of the boat was set down into the hull during assembly it crushed the fuel fill hose about 3 inch's from the fuel fill neck on the tank causing a 50% reduction in flow. I cut the bulk head to increase clearance but the hose was deformed so I had to replace it. While doing this I rerouted the hoses to give a better flow to the tank eliminating all low spots. This helped a lot.I also removed the chain so I could get the fuel nozzle to fit properly and with the larger nozzles I use the Volkswagen adapter. Now when I fill the tank I can pump at full flow all the way to the last 10 gallons. To fill it the rest of the way I must go real slow, stop walk to the bow and burp the tank.

( This is my opinion ) The tank design is flawed, the vent and fill are right next to each other. The vent should be slightly higher and the fill slightly lower based on the attitude of the boat at rest. If the vent and fill are with in 2" of each other this creates an issue. It makes it easy to install but doesn't work that good to fill. I think this clean way fuel fill is the answer. I actually have a bottle of dawn mixed with water ready when we fuel up to help dissipate the film of fuel on the water. I tell the fuel dock attendant I will fill it and try not to make a mess of the water. I have gotten good at it with minimal spillage but it takes a long time to fill.
 
I have the vent whistle and it works fine. However, if you fill too slowly there is not enough air pressure to make it sound loudly so you need to put the fuel in fast enough. As others have said, make sure you have no dips in your vent line or fill line. That will help significantly against backup and frothing. Once I installed the whistle I have never had an issue knowing when to stop filling.
 
Using detergent to dissipate a fuel spill doesn't get rid of the spilled fuel, it just spreads it out more so you don't see it. It is better to have an absorbent pad ready to soak up any spilled fuel.
 
BradOwens":dptm5goa said:
Using detergent to dissipate a fuel spill doesn't get rid of the spilled fuel, it just spreads it out more so you don't see it. It is better to have an absorbent pad ready to soak up any spilled fuel.

I totally agree with you the soap only dissipates the fuel. Unfortunately most fuel docks don't have absorbent towels available, if they do I ask for some. I don't carry enough onboard for fuel spills and a few fuel docks I have been at it is not safe to get in-between the dock and boat to absorb a fuel spill. The soapy water is more to reduce embarrassment of the mess made when fueling definitely not a solution. I want to eliminate spills . Hopefully the Clean way works.
 
I have used the Clean Way with some success, but even with the Clean Way I still get a periodic burp of diesel out of the fuel vent-- so caution is still required.
 
I hate to bring this up, however it may save someone some $$. The Clean Water Act 33CFR 153.305 states that if caught dispersing fuel/oil in US navigable waters with soap you can be fined up to $25,000 per incident. If you spilled a significant amount of fuel/oil in the water you must call the National Response Center 1-800-424-8802.

I try to use marinas with slow speed fuel pumps and always have absorbing pads both under the filler and vent. I don’t have a whistle but I keep my ear close to the filler to hear when the sound changes indicating the tank is full and I run the slow speed pump very slow. If I need to use the a high speed pump I use the device discussed above.
 
What is so great about this site is that I read about the Clean Way device about 7:45 AM (EDT)...ordered it at 8 AM and had an email saying it was shipped at 10 AM! Of course, I went out to fuel the RT and managed to run a bit of fuel over the side...
 
This device looks like it just might work. Now I always ask the fuel dock person to set the pump at a low flow rate, which I think most pumps can do. I had a VW diesel car and I don't remember it ever foaming. which makes me wonder if the dye put in off- road diesel is a factor.(not that we can do anything about that) But I agree that fueling these boats can be stress-inducing.
 
I have two items installed in the fuel tank vent line. The first is a whistle as has been mentioned in other post in this thread. The second is a "Racor Lifeguard 3-Stage Vent Line Fuel/Air separator ", model LG100. I have had no spills or vent "burps" with these two devices installed.
 
I also did the Racor vent device. Works great. I used the Cleanway device but still spilled too much. Went to a plumbing store and fabricated a PVC funnel that screws into the fuel orifice. A 4” diameter funnel that is about 6” tall. The thread is 1.25” diameter.

We are looping and fill quite often, so it gets a lot of use. Have not spilled since using funnel. Fill the tank until it refuses...rock the boat to burp. Fill slowly to minimize foaming and along the side of the funnel to get a swirl kinda thing going. Have topped off from a can after filling from hose (when we absolutely need all the fuel we can hold). Usually takes a gallon or so more after sitting for an hour or so, but filling from hose is so much easier now.

Will post a photo when we get somewhere with more bandwidth.

TK
 
Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. We have to fill up at a dock that has hi-speed pumps, which they set a lower speed for us (so I'm told). Our biggest issue is the "burps" out of the vent. It takes me the better part of 20 minutes or more to add 60 gallons of fuel. I need to work on my grip and my squats. :lol:
 
koedding@comcast.net":c8qmvpp6 said:
...Our biggest issue is the "burps" out of the vent. It takes me the better part of 20 minutes or more to add 60 gallons of fuel...
What you are describing points pretty clearly to low spots in both the vent and fill line. I had the same issue with the burping vent. It was resolved by removing about four inches of hose from the vent line. It is easily done. You have to cut the zip ties that secure the vent to the fill line first. Then simply remove the hose from the vent fitting, pull it tight from the vent end and mark how much can be removed. Doing the same with the fill line is also helpful though slightly more difficult to do.

Regarding the foaming that people are mentioning, diesel always foams, and always has done so. It is not persistent foam and dissipates quickly. The reason we see it on many of these boats and not in vehicles etc. is due to the configuration of the fill hose. Anyone who is experiencing foam coming out the fill line is due to there being a low spot in the fill line. As long as the vent is clear(does not have a low spot) fuel won't back up but the low spot does provide a surface for the foam to float on and it backs up to the fill point. It's just like what happens in a kitchen sink when you drain soapy water. Due to the p-trap the foam will stay backed up in the drain no mater how much water you run in the sink. The foam won't go away until the foam dissipates of its own accord or you knock it down with the spray nozzle.

There are two reasons that filling slowly avoids the foam problem. First is that even if there is not a true low spot in the fill line it is a flat enough run that filling fast basically has the same effect, i.e. it creates a p-trap effect. That coupled with the fact that the high velocity/mixing rate creates more foam causes it to back up. If there is a true low spot in the line(aka a trap) then filling slowly both creates less foam and allows time for the foam trapped above the low spot to dissipate before it backs all the way up to the fill point.

We had both problems on our boat, i.e. burping vent and foam backing up the fill line. Shortening the vent resolved the burping. Shortening the fill line reduced the foaming issue but filling too fast still results in foam backing up to the fill point. This is due to there still being a bit of slack in the fill line that I need to tighten up.

BradOwens":c8qmvpp6 said:
Using detergent to dissipate a fuel spill doesn't get rid of the spilled fuel, it just spreads it out more so you don't see it...
Well kinda sorta. It "disperses" the floating oil. Which means it allows it to mix with water rather than floating on top.
 
I have an r25, which model of theis product did you buy 10" or 12 " baffle and any adapters needed?
 
I went with the 12...but, it has not yet arrived. I noticed somewhere that a small version was available for smaller watercraft....
 
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