Newbie with a lot to learn

[mack6162]

I am new to this site and new to the world of Ranger Tugs. I can tell that the members here have a great deal to share from my short time on the site. My wife and I tested a new R27 last fall and really liked it. We are looking for something that is stable in rough water and will allow us to (reasonably) comfortably stay on for up to two weeks at a time. We also like the idea of trailering the boat to different places across the country to explore new waterways. We would even consider staying on the boat when stopping on the road. The biggest drawback for us is the cost of a new boat. We want to retire soon and have other things to do besides boating. We would like to learn the differences between the new OB boats and the Classic diesel boats. We have a sterndrive boat now and we really don't want another one due to repair costs for the outdrive and the cooling/exhaust system in general. I assume that an inboard has fewer issues than a sterndrive, but I do not know for sure. From reading here on the forums it appears that the Classic boat is a slower cruise. What are the other differences/similarities? What should we look for in a used boat? Any other thoughts would be much appreciated. We would like to become members of the Ranger Tug family.

 

[Bruce Moore]

Bumping post delayed in moderation queue.

 

[Submariner]

My wife and I tested a new R27 last fall and really liked it. We are looking for something that is stable in rough water and will allow us to (reasonably) comfortably stay on for up to two weeks at a time. We also like the idea of trailering the boat to different places across the country to explore new waterways. We would even consider staying on the boat when stopping on the road. We would like to learn the differences between the new OB boats and the Classic diesel boats. We have a sterndrive boat now and we really don't want another one due to repair costs for the outdrive and the cooling/exhaust system in general. I assume that an inboard has fewer issues than a sterndrive, but I do not know for sure. From reading here on the forums it appears that the Classic boat is a slower cruise. What are the other differences/similarities? What should we look for in a used boat? Any other thoughts would be much appreciated. We would like to become members of the Ranger Tug family.

We have an R27-OB and love it. We frequently do 2-4 day trips on her, but have done as long as a 10 day cruise, anchorage to marina to anchorage. 3 adults and 3 dogs. Our last boat had a gas inboard and a stern drive. I can totally relate to your comment about costs of the stern drive and the cooling/exhaust system in general. This was primarily why we wanted the outboard. It's raw water cooled, there's 8 anodes inside the crankcase, 2 anodes inside next to the thermostats... (anodes replaced every 300-500 hours). Yamaha built the F300 engine for salt water. It's got a 70 amp alternator that provides plenty of power even at idle, we use it as a generator to recharge our batteries on occasion.

I'd say probably the biggest differences between the inboard and outboard are the following:
- Where to store the dinghy. The outboard is in the way, the inboard allows for easy storage on the transom.
- Maintenance - The outboard requires a haul-out to replace the lower gear oil and water impeller every 100 hours.
- Speed - The outboard will get you to your destination in a lot less time.
- Noise - You won't hear engine noise in the cabin on an outboard unless you run the T9.9 kicker. (which is not to say it's quiet in the cabin. There's still the sound of the wind and waves, and at 25knots that can be louder).
- DIY Maint - The outboard is easier to physically work on, as the engine is not located in a tight space. This also opens up more storage space on the outboard since where the engine would go, is empty space.

There's a performance thread in Tugnuts where folks listed what they usually see speed wise. In general, the inboards are going to cruise around the 10-15 knots while the outboards can cruise slow, or can scoot along comfortably at 25 knots.
http://www.tugnuts.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17591&p=115136&hilit=perform#p115136

We recently published a couple of video's on YouTube that you may find of interest.

Inboard vs outboard
https://youtu.be/LYoBPNLN3hM

We also did a walk-through of our R27-OB.
https://youtu.be/W5rSdDSGdsM

Trailering vs. moorage
https://youtu.be/OIsAnQ3_kFA

 

[GypsyMoth]

Another OB owner here...
A couple of comments to follow-up from the previous post- I did include the Ranger davit and dinghy that lifts the dinghy up and over the outboard. it is fairly simple and convenient, but does restrict the rear view.

As far as the outboard being easier to do maintenance on, I would agree assuming you plan on having the boat on a trailer (which is sounds like you do). I keep the boat in a berth and did not purchase a trailer, the outboard service does require the boat to be out of the water.

I do like being able to raise the outboard and flush it when I return to port.

We lived on the boat for the week or so Factory Delivery Experience/ shake down cruise up in Washington before the boat was shipped down and had no problems feeling comfortable (a mix of rain and great sunny weather...).

Cheers,

 

[mack6162]

Thanks for the replies. I am working an extended period of night shift, so it may take me awhile to review the links that were posted. I look forward to reviewing their content. We actually live on the James River in SE VA, and we have a pier with a boat lift. This allows us to flush the raw water system on our existing boat whenever we return from a trip in the water. I also have a walkboard that I can place aft of the boat while it is on the lift, and that allows me to perform quite a bit of maintenance without having to pull the boat. The plan is to have a trailer, however, because we don't leave our boat on the lift during hurricanes/bad storms, and because we want to travel with it when we retire. My biggest problem is affordability. The older diesel boats seem to be more readily available, and at much better prices. I am being quoted $253k for a new R27 OB with trailer. A that price I may not get to retire for quite some time...

 

[S. Todd]

We purchased a 2015 R25SC (Inboard) in early 2015 and used it for 6 years. We had 5 different Sea Rays, all inboard/ outboard stern drives before that. We typically would spend a week or two at at time on the boat for up to 5 weeks each year. I was concerned about giving up the speed we were so accustomed to but was attracted to the better week long living spaces offered by the Ranger Tug. We found we loved the hard top and did not miss the wind blowing in our faces. A slow cruise with lunch on the dash turned out to be extremely enjoyable. The autopilot was something I thought we would use seldom, but found we used it all the time unless there was lots of traffic or it was really rough and I wanted a hand on the helm. The safety of the diesel engine and never worrying about the explosion issues presented with gasoline on board was an added benefit. (Granted those explosions are rare, and if proper maintenance is done even less common, but ugly when they do happen.) I loved being able to pay for diesel fuel at the marinas at prices less than on the highway and was so glad not to worry about finding gasoline without the dreaded ethanol in it. I found the do-it-yourself maintenance on the diesel inboard similar to what I did with my stern drives, less all the stern drive fluid changing, attention to bellows and greasing u-joints. We enjoyed the inboard diesel so much that when we retired last year and envisioned spending longer periods of time on the boat (after resolving an aging parental care issue), we sold the R25SC last fall and ordered a R29S.
Ask me in a year or two how much I enjoy trailering the 10 foot beam because we have been trailer boaters for over 30 years and still plan on trailering. Our favorite launch ramp is about 8 hours away from landlocked Indianapolis.

 

[BB marine]

This is an opinion based question. It can be answered by Outboard owners with all the positives of the outboard and In-board owners with the positives of the in-board. The answer to the question is not what is better because they are both good options. The answer is what are you looking for and what is your preference ?

The issue of which power plant is better for reliability and longevity? 20 years ago the inboard diesel hands down better in both reliability and Longevity. Today with the introduction of full electronic fuel injected inboards and full electronic fuel injection outboard 4 stroke engines with HP in the 600 hp range reliability is even. The longevity of the larger displacement diesels is going to be better. In my opinion the smaller displacement diesels the longevity is about the same as the outboard if operated the same way 50 % load. ( smaller displacement 2.0L to 4.0L which would be found in the R23 toR29 trailerable boats)

If speed is a concern. Meaning you want to cruise in the 25Kt to 30 Kt range then there is no question as to which boat to look for, Outboard. I will say this comes with one note. The boats you are asking about are trailerable. The size is 23' to 27'. The boats are planing hulls with a 8' 6" wide hull. I would not consider a Deep V hull. It's not a semi V hull. It is in my opinion a hybrid with a blunt entry at the bow. In 2' to 3' wind waves 3 to 4 second periods it will not be the most pleasant ride at 25 to 30 kts. The outboard model boats by design are bow light, stern heavy boats so the option to cruise at 15Kts in choppy sea's is not an option. The fuel economy is terrible in this range. 7 kts and above to planing speed is a speed you will not want to operate the boat. If speed is not a concern and 16 to 20kts is as fast as you would want to cruise the inboard may be your choice. The inboards are smooth running very economical at 6.5 Kts to 7kts well balance center of gravity, and handle a 2 to 3' sea at any speed with no hull pounding at all. The speed would not be fast it would be 15Kts and average 2 MPG. The noise level of the inboard will be slightly higher than the outboard but to me that is a sweet sound. The sound of a inboard diesel with the spooling of a turbo is a sweet sound on the water IMO.

Comforts of home. All of the ranger and Cutwaters in the 23' to 29' are in my mind comfortable. The bigger the boat the more comfort. When my wife and I were looking at the Ranger line. Our first look was a 21' awesome little boat but not big enough for us to spend a couple months on. Next we looked at the C24. We really liked the lay out stateroom in V berth area with a head and the pilot house had full visibility. The C24 would be easy to trailer but not enough room for us to spend a couple months on. We looked at the inboard R25 and R27 inboard both checked all the boxes enough room to cruise on for a couple months, inboard, big cockpit, the only box it did not check was the V berth stateroom with head and good 360 degree visibility which was important to us. The C26 and C28 at the time were the only boats in the 25' to 29' that had this. We chose the C26 for this reason, easy to tow, Cruise speed 15Kts, WOT 20kts, comfortable to stay on for 2 months ( we have stayed comfortably on this boat for 3 months and spent 6 months this year with a 6 week break for the holidays.)

Now all the Fluid Motion models have this feature. The Cutwater layout is used in the full line of Rangers.

If you are looking to buy a new Ranger or Cutwater in the easily trailerable size your option of inboard is not there. They are all outboards now unless you move to the R29 or C30.

If you are looking at Rangers outboards to get the interior living space as a inboard R25, R27, C26,C28 the only model that you would be looking at is a R27 outboard. IMO the R27 has close to the same interior living space as the 4 listed above. The R27 outboard does have a very nice open cockpit. The difference between a R25 outboard and a R25 inboard in interior room and storage? The inboard is hands down larger. We were at the SWF Ranger Tug rendezvous this winter. During the boat crawl I looked at all the models there. Rangers and Cutwaters of every model made were present except the R21. Every boat has its pluses and minuses. I had owners of a new R25 outboard come on board our C26 the first question they asked was " what size is this?" I said 26'. Their next comment was "there is no way!!! " " This boat is so much bigger inside than our boat, look at all the cabinet space, the next question was "is that a down stairs"? The 1/4 berth in the Cutwater is huge compared to the R23, R25,R27 outboards. Is this important to you ? Is storage important?

To answer the your question of you post. You need to know what you want in your next boat. What you want may not be available in a Ranger or Cutwater. It probably is but maybe not in a current model. Or maybe it is. Make a list. example:

Desirable cruising speed. 7Kts_ 15Kts_ 25Kts_ 30Kts_

Max weight of boat for trailering _______________

Living space and storage inside cabin _____________

Cockpit space ______________

Ability to carry a dingy and launch easily ______________


Outboard ______________


Inboard _____________

New __________

Used ______________


How do you plan to use the boat? weekends. Two weeks at a time , extended cruising ________________



What type of cruising are you looking to do? Inter-coastal water ways, coastal, Lakes, Rivers, ________________



What type of tow Vehicle do you have what is its tow capacity? ___________________



Generator ____________


Electronics ________________


Hull design planing or semi displacement _______________


Appearance. TUG, Pilot house, sport fish, express _______________


Maintenance ______________

There are many more items that you can put on your list. Once you know what your needs are you will be able to figure out which boat is for you. If cost is a factor. There are used boats out there. Do your home work and spend the money to get it surveyed before purchasing it. Ask for all the service records.

 

[mack6162]

BB, thank you for your insight. I have never heard of a C26, but WOW, what a nice looking boat. It seems like it would meet most, if not all, of our needs. Any idea why they stopped making them? What was the last year for that model? I would love to see one in person if anyone has one in the SE VA, NE NC area. I read a post discussing issues with getting the bow down. Is that a problem with those boats. What are some other issues to be aware of?

My wife doesn't like cruising fast, and I don't like burning money, so we typically stay around 20Kts in our current boat. My only concern there would be getting home quickly on our day trips if the weather turns bad. I would say that one of our highest priorities is stability and comfort in rough water. We have so many days that we can't use our current boat because of 2-3 ft seas, and we would really like to have something that we can use for 3+ seasons per year. We do not fish. We want a boat that weighs no more than 7500 - 8000 lbs, both for our lift and for trailering. While we are weekend boaters now, we plan to travel much more extensively in a couple of years, so comfort and roominess is important, as is fuel economy. We also like to sit out on the back of the boat, even while it is on our lift. Air conditioning and a generator are musts. I really am not sure about a dingy. Perhaps I am too inexperienced to appreciate one or to understand why I would need one on a 26' boat. The engine choice is probably going to come down to a question of money, as is new vs. used. I assume that the true inboard has way less maintenance/fewer problems than a sterndrive. Are we really looking at a shaft seal and some sort of shaft bearing as maintenance items? It appears that everything else is out of the water. What about exhaust manifolds? Are they raw water cooled? I am quite comfortable with regular engine maintenance as I perform most all of it on my 7.4 Mercruiser. Appearance is not paramount, but I must say that the C26 is very attractive.

We plan to purchase a 1-ton, 4 wheel drive, gas powered pickup truck to tow the boat. We do not want anything over an 8'-6" beam for towing.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[BB marine]

C26 last year built was 2016. We Purchased ours in April 2016 and I believe it was out of production then. I believe the reason for production stop of the C26 was the introduction of the C24 that year. The redundancy of models. The C26 and C28 are idenical boats from the pilot house bulkhead forward. The C26 has a 2' smaller cockpit and 40 hp less in power. The C28 is a faster boat by 3 kts if loaded equally.

Yes the bow does ride high. I had to address that. I originally installed Bennett drop fins which took care of the problem. I then installed larger trim tab planes so the boat could be lifted with a fork truck when in saltwater areas ( I don't like putting my trailer in salt water ) The C26 is capable of 20 Kts if the boat is not loaded heavy. I would not tell anyone they could cruise at 20 kts in it. When we cruise just for weekends I have seen 20 kts and cruise at 16kts. When we are loaded for an extended cruise with the dingy and motor, paddle board, extra cloths, food, full water and full fuel the performance is decreased by 2 kts. My cruise speed is now 14 kts which is where it just "planes" I did have the prop tuned for the additional weight so I am still able to maintain manufactures recommended WOT RPM and the engine is loaded properly. The C 26 handles 2' to 3' comfortably at 14kts it really likes 16 kts when it gets choppy. If I am running and the sea's pick up I do run the engine bit harder because the boat handles better going faster in choppy seas.

The need for a dingy is where and how you are cruising. If you are planning on staying at marinas there is no need for a dingy. If you plan on spending a lot of time on the hook you will want to have a dingy to go to shore and see the sights and get provisions. There is also a safety factor if you are cruising in open waters.

The benefit of the C26 over the C28 is weight for trailering. There is about 2000 lbs difference. This was a major reason for choosing the C26 over the C28 when we purchased it. We planned to do a lot of trailering and we have. The boat is not light though. When we travel, we plan on being on the boat for a while. with all the equipment and extra gear loaded in the boat the gross weight of the boat and trailer is about 10,000lbs +500/-500. When I purchased the boat I purchased an Integrity trailer (Custom built in Michigan) the dealer I purchased the boat from suggested the upgrade. It is a 15000lbs rated trailer 3 axels with electric over hydraulic disk brakes. When I bought the boat I purchased a 2016 HD2500 4x4 Chevy with a 6.0L gas engine with a rated tow capacity of 14500 lbs. The truck has a Class V hitch. I debated on the diesel which has significantly more power but I didn't want the added maintenance cost and to pay 5K more for a truck if I didn't have to. The 6.0 has pulled the boat quite well with about 15000 miles of over the road trailering. The maintenance cost of this truck since 2016 with 60000 miles is $1700.00 That is for 14 visits to the GM dealer for 14 oil changes, 1 complete anti freeze flush and 1 transmission ,differential and transfer case flush and fluid change each time a full inspection of the truck.

I was a certified mercruiser technician and have rebuilt many Alpha and Bravo drives along with u joint, gimbal bearing bellow replacements and in some cases complete transom assemblies. Rebuilt many trim rams and replaced plenty of exhaust manifolds and risers. Much of that work was because of owner neglect . There is more maintenance involved in a stern drive than a straight inboard. The Volvo diesel inboard is completely freshwater cooled (antifreeze) It does have a raw water side that has seawater running through it. This system will have increased longevity if properly maintained and flushed on a regular intervals. I personally flush my raw water system any time I am staying at a marina that has a city water spigot on the dock. It takes about 5 minutes to do with a proper set up. Keep your packing inspected, check the alignment from time to time. Change fuel filters, oil filters, crank case filter, engine and trans oil, impeller replacement on a recommended interval and you are good for many hours of service.

I have an album full of pictures. Upgrades ,issues found and repaired, custom installs to make the boats reliability and comfort to the level we wanted for our cruising needs. I take pride in maintaining my boat and feel it is also a part of boating. The reward for that is when entering a harbor, marina or anchorage and having a fellow boater come by and say I really like your boat, Who makes it? Is it new? You will find if you have a Cutwater or Ranger in good maintained condition this is a common occurrence.

I have a tendency to say it like it is when it comes to issues with build quality of the Cutwater and Rangers. Bottom line they are built well and nicely appointed. Our 5 years of ownership has been a great experience over all. Yes I have found issues and had to fix them but the boat has never failed us and the reliability has been good.

 

[H28]

ok, so if you are retired and have a truck/trailer then you really don't need a go-fast boat, do you?

If traveling by water you have plenty of time to get where you are going, and if by land you are going 60 mph with better MPG than go-fast outboard model.

$ is a stated issue. 8'6" is a stated max.

"Classic" RT27 would be my humble suggestion.

We have the newer RT29S and appreciate the wider beam than our prior RT25. If you can go above 8'6", a classic RT29 has a wider and more stable beam and won't have you working x extra years to afford a newer one.