Promariner Combi 2500 QS Casualty

[fishheadbarandgrill]

Thought I'd share my recent experience that appears to have fried the charging/power pass through capability of my Promariner Combi. Yesterday I returned from a couple of hours underway. I connected shore power. AC Line 1 and 2 illumined green. I turned on the battery charger breaker and then turned on the Combi at the remote panel. When I turned on the Combi, noticed a very faint red light in the reverse polarity indicators. I could barely see it but it was present and not bleed oner from the Green AC Line 1 and Line 2 indicators. I did some quick visual inspections and couldn't see any reason for a dimly lit reverse polarity light. I eventually turned on the genset and the reverse polarity lights went out. So that told me the problem was either the pedestal or my cables. Figuring both my cables didn't go bad at once, I informed my marina that the pedestal has a problem. They changed out what they thought was a bad outlet on the pedestal this morning. When I lit off the Combi, the unit went into inverter mode immediately. The charging function would not initiate. The reverse polarity lights are not illuminated. After many calls with Tim at RT and Promarinaer Tech support, I've ordered a new Combi. I did verify good AC voltage into the Combi. There were no faults lights or popped circuit breakers on the Combi. AC Line 2 working okay (the two Reverse Cycles circuit)

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

We replaced our Promariner 2500 Unit 2 weeks ago on our 2011 R29. The lights on the ProMariner indicate the battery is charging but we did not turn on the Battery Charger switch on the breaker panel, does that need to be on? I am still confused as to how this is wired. Any information appreciated.

Yes, the battery charger breaker on the AC panel needs to be on, then place the switch on the remote panel in the “on” position. At least that’s how it’s wired on my boat.

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

Our remote panel has three options, shore power/ charger, off, inverter. so I will turn on the battery switch then move the remote panel to shore power/ charger. Does that sound about right?

Yep.

 

[knotflying]

Ranger sometimes has different wiring scenarios depending on who was doing the wiring at the time. I am not sure if that is the case now, but it is possible with the classic 29. The breaker in the electric panel does not necessarily control the inverter or the charger, especially if you have a combi unit. For the charger to work on the combi unit you need to have the rocker switch in the up position while on shore power. You should see indicator lights come on at the unit which identify charging modes or faults. The combi has an automatic transfer switch that, when on shore power, will bypass the inverter and provide 110v automatically. To determine if your charger is working or not you can disconnect the battery wires at the inverter. Put your rocker switch in the up position and then touch the terminals with a multimeter. You should get a charging voltage of around 14V or higher. If you do not get a reading then there is an issue with the charger.

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

Ranger sometimes has different wiring scenarios depending on who was doing the wiring at the time. I am not sure if that is the case now, but it is possible with the classic 29. The breaker in the electric panel does not necessarily control the inverter or the charger, especially if you have a combi unit. For the charger to work on the combi unit you need to have the rocker switch in the up position while on shore power. You should see indicator lights come on at the unit which identify charging modes or faults. The combi has an automatic transfer switch that, when on shore power, will bypass the inverter and provide 110v automatically. To determine if your charger is working or not you can disconnect the battery wires at the inverter. Put your rocker switch in the up position and then touch the terminals with a multimeter. You should get a charging voltage of around 14V or higher. If you do not get a reading then there is an issue with the charger.

I agree with you on the wiring scenarios. My inverter remote panel, the auto standy position is the up position and the on position is in the down position. My battery charger breaker must be on fo rate combo to charge or invert.

 

[knotflying]

I agree with you on the wiring scenarios. My inverter remote panel, the auto standy position is the up position and the on position is in the down position. My battery charger breaker must be on for rate combo to charge or invert.

Keeping aside how the power initially gets to the input side of the inverter unit ( either via the panel circuit breaker or direct wiring from shore power) the way I understand it is, when on shore power the rocker switch has to be in the up position for the charger to be functioning. In the down position while on shore power you have the charger off and are using the inverter on battery power only.
When off shore power and the rocker switch is in the up position it is in auto standby with no charger. You will see the 110 voltmeter pulsate. That is because it is hunting for a draw. Once there is a continuous draw the inverter will power up and provide 110 power to the panel and liven up any other circuit having the breakers on.

One thing for sure is that ProMariner's instructions leave a lot to be desired.

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

The Combi went into charging mode today. I did not do anything to correct that problem. I still have a faint reverse polarity light when the Combi is charging, and still only when plugged into shore power. There is no reverse polarity when I’m on the genset. Tomorrow I’m going to start metering all the connections from the pedestal to the Combi. I’m hoping to find a bad shore power receptacle either on the pedestal or on the boat. I swapped cable with another boat with no change so I’ve eliminated them from the equation.

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

I continue to troubleshoot my shore power or Combi problem. I replaced my shore power inlet receptacle and bought a new cable and I'm still finding 1.1VAC across the neutral and ground ckts in AC Line #1. I only get that reading when the combi is on and charging in boost mode. I have not been able to take a reading with the combi in float mode (with the green "ready" light illuminated. The reading at the input side of the Combi in charging/shore power mode is 1.5VAC between neutral and ground and 0.9VAC at the output side of the Combi. I'm still baffled. I saw no visible problems behind the switchboard. The only thing I've done on the boat is install a new water heater and I've checked that connection. And... when I disconnect from shore power and run the genset, and initialize the Combi in charger/shore power mode, I don't get any readings across neutral and ground.

 

[plewis]

I think I'm missing something, if the ground and neutral are properly tied together on the dock why would you have any reading between the two on the boat? If they weren't tied correctly/cleanly stray currents could be generated giving you the readings you have encountered and also light the RP Led. I would want to rule out the dock power for certain before proceeding further by buying a polarity tester for $15.

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

I think I'm missing something, if the ground and neutral are properly tied together on the dock why would you have any reading between the two on the boat? If they weren't tied correctly/cleanly stray currents could be generated giving you the readings you have encountered and also light the RP Led. I would want to rule out the dock power for certain before proceeding further by buying a polarity tester for $15.

I tested the outlets on the dock today with a meter. Neutral to ground read 0VAC.

 

[plewis]

I apologize if I' am stating the obvious or incorrect in my assumptions.

0 volts across ground and neutral at the pedestal is consistent with my prior post assuming the boat was not connected when you made the check. Using appropriate caution I would check for resistance between the two legs at the pedestal - s/b 0 ohms.

I have read that high current devices can cause the RP Led to faintly illuminate without danger or harm for reasons that are not clear to me, so for drill you could try turning off the charger and turn on the water heater and check the RP Led.

 

[captstu]

Neutral, white, and ground, green, or tied together at the source of the power, not at the power post on the dock.

There should be 0 V between neutral and ground most of the time.

When the load grows on the dock power post, the voltage on the black wire goes down to the voltage drop. At the same time When a properly wired system the voltage on the white wire, neutral, goes up by exactly the same amount.

This slight difference causes a minimum glow on a properly wired reverse polarity indicator.

You can safely ignore the small glow under these conditions.

You will notice in the darkend Boat that when you turn your hot water on the reverse polarity indicator glows very slightly.


If you were to measure the AC voltage under these conditions, black to green, you would see a slightly decreased voltage when the hot water heater is turned on. This is normal and correct.

If you measure the neutral to ground voltage at the same time, you will notice that the neutral voltage has gone up very slightly, by the same amount you previously measured.

We all seem to understand the voltage drop on the black line as the current goes up.

Exactly the same circumstances occur on the white line and manifest as an increase the voltage between the white and the green.

This is normal.

If you have a erroreniousy tied the white and green lines together on your boat, you will now have a voltage between the metal parts of your boat in the water. Since it is alternating current it will not cause erosion on your boat but it will potentially kill the diver but comes to clean the bottom.

 

[Red Raven]

Bob,

Do you have a galvanic isolator on your boat? A galvanic isolator adds about 1.4 volts between the bonding system (green wires) and the neutral (white). Most isolators, however, only add this for DC and not AC (code requires a capacitor be added to pass AC current with no drop). However, It is still possible to buy an isolator without the capacitor. If your boat has such an isolator or if the capacitor has failed that may explain the voltage you are seeing between the grounding wire and neutral.

Curt

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

Update on my original post. I’ve continued to have intermittent problems with my Combi. I’ve not had a problem in many months until today when the Combi doesn’t recognize shore power or voltage from the genset. The shore power light on the Combi is not illuminated even though I’ve confirmed input volatage. Promariner tech support thinks the transfer switch is bad so I’m going to swap out the unit with a new one.