Replacing Autopilot Pump

B

bchristie

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
87
Fluid Motion Model
R-21
Vessel Name
Spirit
2014 Cutwater 28: I have the steering issue of needing right rudder wheel input to keep a steady course. I have read the posts about this fairly frequent problem with the Garmin 1.2 pump. I closed the three valves to isolate the pump and the manual steering was normal; no need for right wheel turns as when the pump valves are open. My question is what if any problems or damage might occur if I continue to operate the boat in this uncorrected condition? The boat steers perfectly under autopilot control. The manual steering is normal at slow speeds and at higher speeds it only takes about one wheel spoke of wheel correction every 30 seconds or so. Not difficult to manage. I do plan to replace the pump but would like to delay that until winter. Also, any new guidance on this issue? Does Garmin offer any pump exchange options? Thanks for the input and advice.
 
You could try putting a check valve in, I had the same problem and the check valve solved it. There are pictures in my album of the install. You need to make sure no more than three lines are connected to the manifold on the pump. You will have to purchase two Tee connectors and two hydraulic lines. The tee connectors alow the pass through of the steering lines with the tee connecting to the check valve. This isolates the pump from the manual steering pressures yet allows the autopilot pump to access the lines through the check valve. The shadow drive is the third line that is connected to the manifold. Garmin sells the check valve and in some cases gave it to customers without charging them as Ibelievethey knewthevavles in the pump were not robust enough to handle the pressures. It is fairly easy to hook up aftering having the lines made up at a Goodyear/Parker Hydraulic store and purchasing the two tees I needed there as well.
Hope this helps.
Terry
 
I also did the check valve and it fixed the problem.

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Thanks for the check valve option suggestion. I have an aft steering station on my cutwater, and there are five hydraulic lines connected to the pump. From what I hear, given this configuration, the check valve option will not work. For now, I will continue to operate the boat as is and plan to replace the pump later in the year. Any further input on this will be appreciated.
 
Mine has aft steering as well. Check valve will still work.

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Another thing to add was I did not do the install myself. The guys that did also said the install on the boat was not done to Garmin's spec so they actually changed some hose runs. Works beautifully now though.
 
Thanks, I will investigate the Check valve idea. Sounds like it may be the best solution.
 
1 more vote for the check valve kit. We've got a 2021 C28. Had similar issues with steering. Got the check valve kit and had it installed - works great now. Fortunately for us it was covered under warranty as well.
 
Is there actually a check valve kit that includes all connectors, hoses, etc.? If yes, what is the source? Thanks again for all the suggestions and advice.
 
Think I'm going to have to install this check valve too. And/or maybe replace the pump on my 2015 C28.

So where do you get these additional fittings and hoses, if Garmin doesn't sell them as a kit? Saw something about Goodyear, but tried entering those part numbers in their search box and didn't come up with anything. Please advise. Thanks!
 
In Florida there are Godyear/Parker stores, the Parker is the hydralic parts manufacturer. You can also Google "hydralic hoses and fittings near me ". I actually found close to a dozen stores in the Tampa area but the Goodyear Parker store had everything I needed and the employees knew exactly what I was looking for and even custom made my hoses in a one foot length for me.
I also had 5 hoses connected to the manifold on my pump. According to Garmin there should only be three. One for the shadow drive, usually on the front of the manifold and two for the actually steering, one for pressure left and one for right. The check valve is actually a more robust set of one way valves that assists the weaker valves in the pump. You'll need two tees and two one foot hoses with a with a female connector, for the connection to the bottom of the Tee connector and and a male connector to connect to the manifold, the one foot hoses are need to make a loop ensuring no kinks in the hoses.
You remove all of the hoses from the manifold except the shadow drive. Connect the two hoses going to the tees to the manifold and put a plug in the other two holes where you removed the other two lines. Next take the 4 lines you removed from the manifold and connect them to the tees making sure you connect the red to red and the green to green lines to the same tees and the same tees and hoses connected to the corresponding hoses connected to the manifold. I filled each of the hoses and fittings with steering fluid using a syringe to help make bleeding the system easier.
You essentially wind up with a hose coming from the manifold red side, starboard, going to the tee and the tee has two red hoses the one coming from the front of the boat going to the steering and the back hose going to the hydralic steering ram. The second green tee, and corresponding hoses represents the same for the port steering.
You ow have just three lines coming out of the pump manifold. One for the shadow drive and two to drive the left and right steering from the autopilot pump going to the tees. Your manual steering is now flowing directly through the tees, bypassing the pump. The check valves are just strong one way valves that allow the pump pressures through the valve and into the steering lines via the tees. What they don't allow is any back pressure from the manual steering to backflow into the pump which effectively separates the autopilot from your manual steering allowing each to operate independently.
Hope this helps. If I can help further PM me and I'll give you my cell number and we can talk further about this.
PLEASE let me know when you PM me on this thread as we no longer get notifications for PMs. Plus I'm terrible at checking my PM inbox.
Terry
 
Thanks for the very helpful information! I'll find somewhere local to get the hoses and fittings, and then follow your instructions.
 
So I installed the check valve yesterday. Seems to correct the issue with having to constantly correct to the right to keep going straight. Things were mostly as specified in the Garmin document, but the existing lines to helm and cylinder were 9/16" x 24 thread UNF fittings. Didn't see that listed anywhere, but needed T's that they could connect to. Thanks to all for help and suggestions.
 
Welcome to the Garmin check valve team [emoji23]

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Good job!!

Terry
 
I have ordered the check valve. However the Garmin instructions and pictures on their website are not consistent and Garmin Tech Support has been no help. I want to order the fittings. Apparently the check valve uses the ORB 5 interface. I have no idea what the spec is for the opposite end of the fittings. Tech support says both ends of the fittings are the same, but the pictures show different thread sizes. I believe my own eyes, not what they say!

Garmin's picture of the HF6006 Tee on their website has a different configuration than the one shown in the installation picture.

What is the female fitting spec on the end of the existing hoses?

There appears to be an extra piece between the female fitting on the hoses and the ORB 5 adapter on the check valve in the installation photo..

What fittings need to go into the vacated holes on the pump manifold? The website indicates 1/4" NPT for my early 2017 boat, next to last of the diesels.

My local hydraulics store guy has never seen ORB 5 fittings and does not carry them. I want to have every thing in hand before I disassemble the hydraulic system.

Can anybody help me with this mystery?

Barry Thompson
TOUCAN, R-27 Classic
 
I have recently purchased a 2019 Ranger R31 CB. I have the same problem with the steering.
The Garmin place in the Bay Area is in Sausalito. There aren't many Rangers in the Bay Area, and he has never dealt with this problem, although he has an excellent reputation with hydraulics.
He says he has never installed a check valve in a system like this, and is not convinced it is a good idea. His recommendation is to install a Garmin Smart Pump II, which is the ultimate fix, with no need for accessory parts. Of course, this will be very expensive (around $4000)
He has spoken to Garmin. He says Garmin has offered a replacement pump (I believe the 1.2 at reduced price of $400) because I qualify for their extended warranty of 5 years. I am not sure if they are offering to pay labor.
From reading this thread, I don't get the sense that in the above cases in the thread the original pump failed. It seems like it is simply not up to the job. However, the fact that Garmin is offering a replacement pump at a discount seems to indicate a pump failure.
So my choices seem to be:
1) Simply install a check valve if the original pump is still good (my mechanic didn't indicate that Garmin will supply the check valve or labor as in some cases above)
2) Install a check valve and replace the pump with the original 1.2
3) Go all in and replace the pump with a smart pump. The difference in price between option 2 and 3 is about $1500 if Garmin does not pay for any labor. The advantage is that I get an improved system which is likely to work indefinitely.
My questions are:
1) Given the above, what would you recommend I do
2) Those of you who have simply installed the check valve without replacing the pump, has this worked so far? How long have you used this system? Obviously, I am concerned that this somewhat jury rigged system will fail again.
3) Those who have gotten the extended warranty, what parts and labor did Garmin pay for
4) Why has Ranger continued installing this insufficient pump for so long knowing the problem exists?
Thanks in advance. I am looking forward to hearing from you, so that I may make an informed decision.
 
I have a 2018 R31. I contacted Garmin about the same issue 3 years ago exactly in 2021 and they put me in touch with a local service center. The service center installed the check valve, bled the system, and ran a sea trial to verify the fix. It's been working great since then, in those 3 years, I've done about 250 hours. and I use autopilot >90% of the time. I didn't pay for any of the parts or labor. I think the fix is reliable long term, I believe others have had it going for many more years than me.

However, if you're paying out of pocket for either solution, my recommendation is if if the check valve fix is more than 50% all-in (parts+labor) of the cost of going with a new smart pump, I'd just go with the smart pump. The added benefit of the smart pump is it has a connection for a rudder indicator built in, which makes it easy to add in the future if you plan to do that anyway. I had to run a whole new nmea2k system for my rudder indicator and get a gateway adapter to connect it to the boat system. And now you have a component on your boat that is less likely to fail.
 
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