Sharrow Props

[Submariner]

Man this thread turned a direction I didn't see coming! Reading between the lines and straight out advice:

2. The Power Tech 5 blade prop seems the way to go. My only concern is you're running a single; I'm running doubles. Do they offer a 30 day "try out" or return?

Careful what you wish for when you post online. :lol:

I'm working directly with the President and VP of PowerTech on identifying the ideal prop for the RT27-OB. Along the way, we're learning lots which will benefit other boats in the Fluid Motion lineup.

I'm specifically working on solving a problem based on our SE Alaska trip which is how this all started.
I want to make it from Shearwater, BC to Prince Rupert, BC, on a single tank of gas in a days travel. It's 204 miles. Hartley Bay and Klemtu just aren't reliable fuel docks in between. I need to do this on about 120 gallons of fuel and I don't want to give up my mid-range, amazing hole shot, and improved reverse thrust to achieve it. It cost me 170 gallons with the PowerTech OFS4-15. I can easily do 204 miles on less than 100 gallons of fuel if I do 7 knots. But I want to run this stretch at 25 knots. I've always felt the 3 blade doesn't provide enough stern lift on my boat where a 4 blade prop does.

I've been watching the Sharrow prop performance but just can't get by the $5k price tag with a 5+ year return on investment. I also recognize that all prop's eventually hit something. Local prop shop's know how to repair traditional prop's. I'd also like to know what's possible for performance on a traditional prop that sells for less than $1k.

I've got all the performance data needed as I keep great fuel and mileage logs on my boat. So I reached out for help and found some of the best in the boating industry with PowerTech.

The work I'm doing is with custom made prop's direct from the PowerTech factory. The prop I'm currently testing is a SCE5 modified (14" diameter, 15 pitch, 5 blade). It's the best I've tested thus far and beats the PowerTech OFS4-15 (modified and unmodified) without question. It also outperforms the Yamaha SWS II 3 blade.

So when I say "modified", that means "unavailable to buy as it's a prototype".

Most prop resellers have some form of an exchange policy which usually involves a nominal fee and a 30 day trial window.

 

[Rocky Lou]

Could also be the engine height on where your twins are mounted on the transom. Just a thought.

You're not wrong. I was working on this issue a couple years back with a former owner, who was a marine engineer. He was certain that engine height played a key factor. Here's part of his last message:
"I eventually moved the motors down one hole per factory, with essentially no change in performance. I ended up switching to Prop Tech 4 blade 17 pitch props, and that essentially solved my issue with instability in speeds at mid range. Fuel economy never got better than 0.9 to 1.0. Interesting problem - when I had the three blade props the port engine burned 10% more fuel. When I switched to four blade, the reverse occurred - starboard burned more than port by 10%!

This must be related to the underlying issue of air entrainment in the water flow under the hull. Clearly the props made a big difference - likely related to stern lift.

At the end of the day, we have decided to sell the boat while the market is hot."

Several of us considered 'drop plates' but I would never try that without a factory bulletin to support the effort.

 

[Remedy2]

Man this thread turned a direction I didn't see coming! Reading between the lines and straight out advice:

2. The Power Tech 5 blade prop seems the way to go. My only concern is you're running a single; I'm running doubles. Do they offer a 30 day "try out" or return?

Careful what you wish for when you post online. :lol:

I'm working directly with the President and VP of PowerTech on identifying the ideal prop for the RT27-OB. Along the way, we're learning lots which will benefit other boats in the Fluid Motion lineup.

I'm specifically working on solving a problem based on our SE Alaska trip which is how this all started.
I want to make it from Shearwater, BC to Prince Rupert, BC, on a single tank of gas in a days travel. It's 204 miles. Hartley Bay and Klemtu just aren't reliable fuel docks in between. I need to do this on about 120 gallons of fuel and I don't want to give up my mid-range, amazing hole shot, and improved reverse thrust to achieve it. It cost me 170 gallons with the PowerTech OFS4-15. I can easily do 204 miles on less than 100 gallons of fuel if I do 7 knots. But I want to run this stretch at 25 knots. I've always felt the 3 blade doesn't provide enough stern lift on my boat where a 4 blade prop does.

I've been watching the Sharrow prop performance but just can't get by the $5k price tag with a 5+ year return on investment. I also recognize that all prop's eventually hit something. Local prop shop's know how to repair traditional prop's. I'd also like to know what's possible for performance on a traditional prop that sells for less than $1k.

I've got all the performance data needed as I keep great fuel and mileage logs on my boat. So I reached out for help and found some of the best in the boating industry with PowerTech.

The work I'm doing is with custom made prop's direct from the PowerTech factory. The prop I'm currently testing is a SCE5 modified (14" diameter, 15 pitch, 5 blade). It's the best I've tested thus far and beats the PowerTech OFS4-15 (modified and unmodified) without question. It also outperforms the Yamaha SWS II 3 blade.

So when I say "modified", that means "unavailable to buy as it's a prototype".

Most prop resellers have some form of an exchange policy which usually involves a nominal fee and a 30 day trial window.

thank you for all the info in this thread. I'm almost ready to jump and buy the PT five blade. Question: you've shown all the benefits of the 5 blade - there has to be a trade-off right? Anything you DON'T like on the five blade vs the OEM three?

 

[Nwdiver]

Do they have counter rotating 5 bladed props yet?

 

[Submariner]

thank you for all the info in this thread. I'm almost ready to jump and buy the PT five blade. Question: you've shown all the benefits of the 5 blade - there has to be a trade-off right? Anything you DON'T like on the five blade vs the OEM three?

WOT top end speed on the OEM Yamaha prop is the fastest. 39-40mph. The SCE5 has me top out at 36-37mph.

Conditions really matter. Weight of the stuff we carry in the boat matters a lot. Wind and current also matter a lot.

I’m up shrimping this weekend. Everett to Prevost harbor this evening. Boats loaded heavy with shrimp pots (30 lbs each) line (500 ft per pot), buoys, electric puller, bait, 3 dogs, 3 adults… food for the weekend, our cockpit is full with all this weight. I ran thru Deception Pass with 4.6 knots of current, going into it. I battled current all the way up Saratoga passage. I did have flat seas though, just going against the current for a lot of the trip.
Rosario Strait had me cutting across the current.

83 miles and I averaged 1.44mpg dock to anchorage. Took me 3.5 hours. On our trip I would see 1.35mpg…. Then it would pop up to 1.5mpg (30mph at 20gph) for a while. Then fall back down. When the mpg dropped, I could speed up or slow down… to change my arrival time, but I couldn’t improve the mpg until the sea conditions (current) changed direction or changed speed. Autoglide was using very little trim tab as the seas were flat.

Tomorrow will be some good testing of slowboating. I’ll have a lot of 7 knots traveling to see how the slow speed performance is. Most of my slowboating on this prop has been up the Swinomish channel or the Snohomish river with current which makes for really good or bad numbers depending. I did see 7mph at 3.6mpg pulling into the Prevost Harbor
this evening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Remedy2]

thank you for all the info in this thread. I'm almost ready to jump and buy the PT five blade. Question: you've shown all the benefits of the 5 blade - there has to be a trade-off right? Anything you DON'T like on the five blade vs the OEM three?

WOT top end speed on the OEM Yamaha prop is the fastest. 39-40mph. The SCE5 has me top out at 36-37mph.

Conditions really matter. Weight of the stuff we carry in the boat matters a lot. Wind and current also matter a lot.

I’m up shrimping this weekend. Everett to Prevost harbor this evening. Boats loaded heavy with shrimp pots (30 lbs each) line (500 ft per pot), buoys, electric puller, bait, 3 dogs, 3 adults… food for the weekend, our cockpit is full with all this weight. I ran thru Deception Pass with 4.6 knots of current, going into it. I battled current all the way up Saratoga passage. I did have flat seas though, just going against the current for a lot of the trip.
Rosario Strait had me cutting across the current.

83 miles and I averaged 1.44mpg dock to anchorage. Took me 3.5 hours. On our trip I would see 1.35mpg…. Then it would pop up to 1.5mpg (30mph at 20gph) for a while. Then fall back down. When the mpg dropped, I could speed up or slow down… to change my arrival time, but I couldn’t improve the mpg until the sea conditions (current) changed direction or changed speed. Autoglide was using very little trim tab as the seas were flat.

Tomorrow will be some good testing of slowboating. I’ll have a lot of 7 knots traveling to see how the slow speed performance is. Most of my slowboating on this prop has been up the Swinomish channel or the Snohomish river with current which makes for really good or bad numbers depending. I did see 7mph at 3.6mpg pulling into the Prevost Harbor
this evening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You run the same routes I run. Moored in Port Ludlow (at my hosue; not the marina) and heading downt to Alderbrook this weekend. Plan on benchmarking the 288- i've only had it a month. Doing the SJI and Canada in August and will probably have new propos on fopr that trip. I RARELY go full speed so a little loss at top end isn't a big deal.

 

[emtlibby]

Just installed a new Powertech 5 blade as Submariner had mentioned. It's a 14" and 15p. It replaced the Yamaha 3 blade saltwater series 2 that was 15.5" and 16p. This is on a Yamaha 250 on a Ranger 25. WAY BETTER. Just did a quick trip, but the stern lift was better, hole shot was better, time to plane was less, and both mid range and top end full economy were better. I used to get 5100 RPM and about 30 knots and 1.2nmpg at WOT. Now I'm 5600, 33 knots, and 1.4nmpg. I need to do more comparisons, but initially impressed. Also the tone or volume was noticebaly more pleasant if that makes sense. Backed up better too. Thanks Submariner!

 

[croakz]

Hi emtlibby,

Which prop did you get for your R25 OB? The stock SCE5? Thanks.

 

[emtlibby]

Hi emtlibby,

Which prop did you get for your R25 OB? The stock SCE5? Thanks.

PowerTech SCE5 Propeller Yamaha 150-300 HP
- Rotation: Right Hand
- Cushion Lok Hub: CLYX200
- SCE5 Size: 14.00 X 15

 

[Jesperjo]

Thanks for the specs @emtlibby. I've been looking for ideas on a better prop for our R-25.

@Submariner: based on what you're seeing from PowerTech, is the SCE5 that emtlibby got the right approach, or do you think there is something worth waiting for?

When I'm cruising at 4,500-4,600 RPM on flat water I get about 33 MPH, and about 2.1 MPG, based on the instruments. It's not that I'm unhappy with that, but I'd like to do better, and also get a better hole shot. What I found interesting though is that the boat falls off a plane around 20-23 MPH. I simply can't maintain it below that speed, so basically, I can go 0-10 MPH and about 23-40 MPH, but I'm missing a lot of speed ranges in between.

 

[Submariner]

Based on what you're seeing from PowerTech, is the SCE5 that emtlibby got the right approach, or do you think there is something worth waiting for?

The prop I've been testing is going to be available shortly.

 

[rknorthwest]

FWIW, you do not have to sign an NDA to buy a Sharrow Prop -- and you are free to share performance data. If you were an early adopter/tester years ago, they had you sign an NDA (common in product development / testing).

 

[jack_patricia]

Much of the discussion here has jumped over to PowerTech from Sharrow. But for the sake of offering more info from owners moving to Sharrow props, I thought this might be of interest. Youtube's Florida Boat Guy posted two videos on moving to a Sharrow prop on his 21' Grady White (Suzuki 200). First video explains his reasoning and initial results and can be found here:

He found a number of boat performance improvements but no efficiency improvement on fuel burn. Sharrow saw his video and contacted him , said they weren't happy with his results and suggested changing how he ran his boat. Those changes and the "optimized" results are covered in his second Sharrow video found here:

 

[Edmund]

The prop I've been testing is going to be available shortly.

do tell when you can please......also, setting aside all the fuel gains and so on, the key to me here is what the "Florida Boat Guy" said...he "fell in love" with his boat all over again. It's like a totally new boat. Everyone uses their boat for their own unique reasons...but loving how your boat drives all over again? To me that's not a 1500 dollar issue....that's a 100 thousand dollar issue.....or more.

 

[Submariner]

do tell when you can please......also, setting aside all the fuel gains and so on, the key to me here is what the "Florida Boat Guy" said...he "fell in love" with his boat all over again. It's like a totally new boat. Everyone uses their boat for their own unique reasons...but loving how your boat drives all over again? To me that's not a 1500 dollar issue....that's a 100 thousand dollar issue.....or more.

Throughout my testing I've had to go back to the 3 blade Yamaha factory prop while waiting on Power Tech. I hated it. it does alright in 'ok' sea conditions, cruising up on plane around 25 knots. Getting up on plane requires a long runway. Reverse thrust is a struggle, especially when there's current. In bad seas, it's awful. 25 knots is too fast to hit 2 and 3 foot seas and 7 knots is too slow. 11-14 knots is much more comfortable in less than ideal seas.

The OFS4 (4 blade Power Tech) solved all those issues, but at reduced fuel efficiency.

The SCE5 Modified I've been testing seems to address all those issues while retaining fuel efficiency. I can get about 200 miles between fuel docks (1.6 miles per gallon averaged, 120 gallons of fuel). On perfect conditions I can hit 1.74mpg, but conditions are rarely perfect in the Pacific Northwest. My boat is far from "empty" or "light". We have clothes, bedding, food, tools, 3 adults, 3 dogs, etc... Reverse thrust is amazing which helps a lot with docking in current.

Getting the right prop on your boat for how you drive is super important. My last boat started out with a 3 blade aluminum prop on a 22' runabout with a 260hp Mercruiser 5.0L, and an Alpha 1 stern drive. I put on a high-five stainless prop, and it literally was an entirely different boat.

Channel Surfing has seen a pretty dramatic improvement with this SCE5 Modified prop. It's been my favorite thus far.

Specifically what I'm looking for in a prop on Channel Surfing
Hole Shot - Get up on plane quick.
Mid Range Cruising - 3000-4000 RPM (11-19 mph), on plane, while maintaining fuel efficiency.
Wide Open Throttle - Greater than 5500 RPM, less than 6,000 RPM. Speed of at least 30 knots. (35mph).
Reverse Thrust - Must be able to back up into current for better control while docking.
Increased Range - Get 204 miles, mostly on plane cruising, on about 120 gallons of fuel. (Shearwater to Prince Rupert).

 

[Submariner]

Just installed a new Powertech 5 blade as Submariner had mentioned. It's a 14" and 15p. It replaced the Yamaha 3 blade saltwater series 2 that was 15.5" and 16p. This is on a Yamaha 250 on a Ranger 25. WAY BETTER. Just did a quick trip, but the stern lift was better, hole shot was better, time to plane was less, and both mid range and top end full economy were better. I used to get 5100 RPM and about 30 knots and 1.2nmpg at WOT. Now I'm 5600, 33 knots, and 1.4nmpg. I need to do more comparisons, but initially impressed. Also the tone or volume was noticebaly more pleasant if that makes sense. Backed up better too. Thanks Submariner!

What's your speed and GPH somewhere in between 3000 and 4000 RPM? (midrange)

 

[bsayre2003]

PowerTech SCE5 Propeller Yamaha 150-300 HP
- Rotation: Right Hand
- Cushion Lok Hub: CLYX200
- SCE5 Size: 14.00 X 15

I'm looking at the same prop for my R23. How has the SCE5 been performing for you?

 

[Submariner]

I'm looking at the same prop for my R23. How has the SCE5 been performing for you?

The R23 has a Yamaha F200, different engine. I don't know if the F200 has enough torque and horsepower to push a 5 blade prop. I know an R23 owner who went with a 3 blade Power tech prop in a different pitch and hub size and saw some decent improvements with it.

 

[Edmund]

PowerTech SCE5 Propeller Yamaha 150-300 HP
- Rotation: Right Hand
- Cushion Lok Hub: CLYX200
- SCE5 Size: 14.00 X 15

I had the same 3 blade you had...mine on a 24C with a 250. A four blade power tech made it a better boat. Would it be your guess that a power tech 5 would kick it up another notch?

 

[emtlibby]

What's your speed and GPH somewhere in between 3000 and 4000 RPM? (midrange)

Usually falls off plane below 3600. But at about 4000 I’ll be at 18kts and 14gph. My sweet spot is to set fuel flow at 17.5gph. That will usually get me around 26kts and 1.6mpg.