Speed Habits - Poll

I used to cruise at 6 knots because it was fun to tell people I use a gallon an hour just puttsin' along. After going to Desolation Sound with the "Nuts" I kicked it up to about 14 knots. However when I get back to my home lake, Lake Coeur D'Alene I get to puttsin' again mostly because I run out of lake after a couple hours!
 
We are new to our Ranger 29 but I am guessing a lot has to do with what engine you have. The Yanmar may run differently than the Volvo. With my SeaSport the factory rep for Volvo/Penta suggested my best fuel efficiency was at 3100 rpm. So I ran it at that unless I was in rough water. In normal conditions that would be usually between 21-24 knots depending on the current. With what little time I have been able to be on our Ranger I am guessing I will try to travel at 8-10 knots most of the time. As mentioned a lot will depend on what time of day and my destination and water conditions.
 
4 to 7 knots, typically.
 
Ranger 31CB, 300hp

Love to cruise 1250 rpms, 5-6 knots, burning 1gph. I do this about 50% of the time.

My wife sometimes says, "Enough Already", so I bump it to 1750 rpms, 7-8 knots, 2.6 gph. I do this about 30% of the time.

If we need to get somewhere, I'll throw it to 3000 rpm, 15 knots, 12.5 - 13 gph. I do this about 15% of the time.

Because I can, WOT, I think between 3250 and 3400 rpms 18-20 knots, 15-16 gph. I do this whenever I feel like it (only about 5% of the time).

I'm not unhappy with any of these numbers. Regardless of speed, I'm always at an engine temp of 185 degrees.

Bobby
 
Typically 17 to 18 kts depending upon tides/currents. Actually I go more by rpm as the sweet spot is about 2800-2900.

We have been trying for two years now to learn how to run 5-7 kts. We are kinda slow learners.
 
I didn't see this thread being exclusive to slow boats, so let me add a new perspective...

My speed is simply a consequence of achieving my Suzuki 300hp outboard sweet spot of 4800 rpm. Once initially reaching 4800 I trim motor up... if boat starts to porpoise I back the throttle down... I generally increase my rpm by 200-300, then back it back down to 4800... my speed is typically 25-30 mph, depending on conditions.

We slow down for marine life and nice waterfront homes... otherwise, it's back to 4800. My fuel consumption is 1.9 to 2.1 miles per gallon... and that stat is where you diesel pushers leave me in your wake!
 
i set my throttle at 2.5 gph which equates to about 7 kts in a neutral wind and sea condition.
 
its pretty interesting to see the ratio of the fast cruisers vs displacement cruisers.
 
We are in a 21 so we have slow or slower as our options. I usually run at 2200 which is about 2/3 of WOT. We get about 6 knots. Sometimes I run at 2600 but don’t gain that much speed so I usually stick at 2200. I’ll bring it up when I’m coming in to burn off carbon.
 
We get the same MPG in our R25SC going half the speed. Makes us think about upgrading!

The Doghouse 2":14tl59l9 said:
I didn't see this thread being exclusive to slow boats, so let me add a new perspective...

My speed is simply a consequence of achieving my Suzuki 300hp outboard sweet spot of 4800 rpm. Once initially reaching 4800 I trim motor up... if boat starts to porpoise I back the throttle down... I generally increase my rpm by 200-300, then back it back down to 4800... my speed is typically 25-30 mph, depending on conditions.

We slow down for marine life and nice waterfront homes... otherwise, it's back to 4800. My fuel consumption is 1.9 to 2.1 miles per gallon... and that stat is where you diesel pushers leave me in your wake!
 
Post by Cutwater28GG on Thu May 14, 2020 12:52 pm

its pretty interesting to see the ratio of the fast cruisers vs displacement cruisers.

PRECISELY
 
Thank you, everyone who responded.

Why did I post this poll?

1) Most people will do what most people do.

I am shopping, planning a return to the water after a 30 year break. I was a sailor then. I'm now older, I have changed, my life has changed, my energy, needs and everything else has changed. While I can create mental pictures of what I PLAN to do, its impossible to know what I WILL do.

The Chesapeake is littered with dockside tiki bars everywhere you turn. Speed off on a fast trip for a crabcake lunch (its a Bay thing) and cold beverage? Or will the focus be long trips down the ICW at trawler speeds? Those are very, very different needs.

So I was curious about what most people do. How they push the boat or kick back and chill. What I'm seeing is not a bell-shaped curve of a normal distribution, but rather a bar-belled data set. A cluster of pretty low and slow, and another cluster of moving at speed. I will say that as I read responses I noted the boat owned in the signature blocks to the right, and it sure seems like either people bought the right boat for them, or their habits have grown to match the strong suit of the boat they own.

In this case, there is no "most people".

2) Everything in boat design is a tradeoff. To get one positive attribute you pretty much have to sacrifice another. Choose wisely.

There are no perfect boats, only perfect boats for you and your personal mission. Low and slow takes you in one direction, and speed in another. Low fuel burn (operating expenses) takes you in one direction, and time / speed to destination in another. Fun taking in the scenery in one direction, the adrenaline rush of speed in another.

The monkey is still on my back to choose. The mission to optimize for. The big questions are always hardest. And its harder yet for my wife.

3) I've spent evenings this week reading engine performance graphs on a variety of cruising boats. I can be slow but eventually I get it. Yes there are small differences, but one thing is more generally true than not: At speeds that are basically displacement speeds up to say 5 to 7.5 knots (maybe 9, depending on some things) the fuel burns per speeds are pretty much identical across a lot of boats built by a lot of builders, powered by a wide variety of engines.

Above there and the true trawlers start pushing a lot of water and burning a lot of fuel to get the extra turn of speed. And of course they max out since they can't plane. But then speedboat hulls have their own issues at low speeds, burn a lot to get on plane, then things ease up but still burn a lot per mile to keep it on plane. With a speedboat, more engine means more speed. Until they too become unstable with "chine walk".

More engine (than really needed) on a trawler has a marginal impact on performance stats. I've read stats on trawlers weighing 300% the weight of an R31 pushed by 250HP diesels that get identical fuel burn as the RT31. Same big trawler, bigger engine, same fuel burn at given speeds up to about 9 knots. A bigger engine does give more top end room at a massive fuel burn (there, if you need it, but be sure not to need it often).

Read the Penta stats carefully on your own engine, and get it that its producing low HP at low RPM. That's all the HP you need if you are into low and slow. But a smaller low HP engine operating at higher RPM won't necessarily be more fuel efficient for you, only cheaper to buy and less weight to drag around. (Yes, that relationship and statement does break down as you push the edges of the point) Thank you Brian for that lesson over the months. I did read it and listen.

4) Don't buy a speedboat with planing hull if you plan to go low and slow. Don't buy a boat built to go low and slow and expect to change it with more engine. Choose.

Back to my cave now, to contemplate.
 
It is definitely a barbell chart.
Let me throw in another variable into the complex equation. FISHING. If you fish most of the time and want to get to the best fishing grounds fast, go for the O/B. I’m amazed by the 2 year old RT O/Bs with 500 hours on them. I’m guessing they fish a lot!
If fishing is just an occasional hobby you do along the journey, the inboard is OK.
My perception is that many of the O/B are serious about fishing. Thus the need for speed.
Others like me don’t fish and don’t need the speed. I had a go fast Monterey 242 Cruiser for a decade before getting my slow old R25 Classic so I’ve been there done that. Just don’t get me thinking that I need to be fishing every day!
 
Al, that one is easy for me. I fished with my grandfather since I was old enough to walk. He baited the hook. 🙂

I liked being with him, on the water, but never really had that urge.

So for me, I don't NEED a big cockpit so long as I do have a good outside space like a bridge. Give me at least one of those and I'm good to go.

Your point, though, is well taken. Fishing is a BIG #3 use beyond what I mentioned, and at least as big as the other two if not bigger when judging from the big number of boats out there optimized for fishing.
 
What I found interesting in the posts is how how many folks switched from sailboats to a tug but then still cruise at displacement hull speeds. It has me wondering on the benefits of doing that? Trading more stability, two sources of movement (sail/engine) for the option of speed, and draft decrease.
 
Well, that's kinda my story, separated by 3 decades. From the time I was 10 until I was 30 I spent a lot of time on the water. Truly an addict. A 10 ft outboard skiff at 10, progressing into day sailers and from there into several small cruising sailboats.

I know what sailing is, from experience. I am studying motor cruising but as of now have no experience doing that. But it has trade-offs that make a ton of sense for me. Sailing is more physically demanding. The bigger the boat the more true that becomes even with larger winches and mechanical assists. Life is never on the level except at anchor. Check out cruising sailor forums and such, and you will find they make a lot of their distance under power, especially down the ICW in those narrow shallow channels. Motor boating is more push button, auto-pilot, and use your pinky finger to turn the wheel. In sailing you are outside, hot or cold, rain or shine. In motor cruising you can choose the command bridge on the sunny spring day, or the cabin as you choose. You want AC, a decent galley, a hot shower and all of that, and you need a pretty big boat to get that, which gets back to physical demands not to mention economy.

Until its time for maintenance. Then gather a big tool box, contort into the engine space or some other hatch and have at it. Surface after a while to do a google search on part numbers, place your order, and come back next week to finish the job.

There are a lot of trawler owners who converted from sailing to enjoy that same life, but in a manner they can handle as they age. The goal isn't to change the experience, other than to change the means to that end.

Throw in a spouse who understands how to turn a wheel to drive a car, start an engine to make it go, but is mystified by a tiller, what makes it go, and how to handle a genoa in a jibe. You can handle a lot more motor boat single-handed than you can sail. Certainly with gray hair.
 
Re: Speed Habits - Poll
Postby Cutwater28GG on Sat May 16, 2020 12:32 pm

What I found interesting in the posts is how how many folks switched from sailboats to a tug but then still cruise at displacement hull speeds. It has me wondering on the benefits of doing that? Trading more stability, two sources of movement (sail/engine) for the option of speed, and draft decrease.

And then tonight on another forum I ran into this, which replied to you better than I could:

"We should be arriving back in FL tomorrow after 2 years and 2 months exploring the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and the entire Eastern Caribbean all the way to Grenada. Once we reached the Virgins, it was almost ALL sailboats, so we met a lot of them. Here's the thing we realized: a sailboat nice enough to live on has all the same systems (and related headaches) as a trawler, PLUS all the rigging and sails, which come with their own set of problems."

"Because of weather, most of the sailboats have become motorboats on this journey, as they do on about half of their journeys, anywhere. (No exaggeration - talk to someone who has sailed the Eastern Caribbean, and you'll find that most of them motor, or motorsail, about half the time.)"

"No doubt sailing has some romance associated with it. But also extra complexity and expense with the rigging and sails (the wind is free, but catching it isn't). And unless you get a BIG monohull or a sailing catamaran, you're going to be cramped for space all the time. There's a reason that happy hours are almost always on our boat, not our friends' monohull sailboats."
 
When we first had the boat we would cruise 15-16 knots.

After the first year, we realized how much more relaxing it was at 10 knots or less. Don't have to dodge logs as fast and can catch the beautiful PNW.
 
FWTMD":3refwqxy said:
4) Don't buy a speedboat with planing hull if you plan to go low and slow. Don't buy a boat built to go low and slow and expect to change it with more engine. Choose.

A perfect analogy. Here is my opinion on this subject right or wrong.The inboard Rangers and Cutwaters are semi displacement hull have a fuel efficient hull when operated at Hull Speed or slightly over Hull Speed. The advantage of a semi displacement hull compared to a full displacement hull is the semi displacement hull can be powered to operate well above hull speed giving the boat owner the option to cruise at higher speeds. Unfortunately with this design the higher cruising speeds are considerably less efficient because it requires a great deal extra power to push the semi displacement hull thru the water. If a boat owner is looking for a 7kt to 9kt cruising boat 75% of the time and using the capability of 15kts to 20kts for 25% of cruising The Ranger Tug and Cutwaters are perfectly matched with the power plants installed. If a boat owner is looking for a 15kt to 20 kt cruising boat 75% of the time and a 7kt to 9 kt cruising boat 25 % of the time. The Ranger Tug and Cutwaters inboard models are underpowered with the exception of the 30 Cutwater with the 435hp D6 Volvo.

The planing hulls with outboards (only speaking about performance) If a boat owner is looking for a efficient 7kt to 9kt cruising boat 75% of the time the ranger Tug 23 and 27 also Cutwater 24 fit the bill. Sorry C302 there isn't much fuel economy with that boat.If the boat owner is looking for a 20kts to 30Kt cruising boat for 75% of the time and 7kts to 9kts 25% of the time The outboard version Ranger 23 and 27 also Cutwater 24 are perfectly matched with power plants.

I would say that the longevity of the 300hp Yamaha or Suzuki in a R27 will be better than the 200 hp or 220 hp D3 Volvo or 180 hp Yanmar if operated at 3500rpm for 75% of the engine operating time. Based on the data published only..The inboard ranger at 3500 rpm and outboard have close to the same fuel burn and speed. In a comparison the C26 220hp at 3500 rpm burns 1 gph more and based on the performance chart 1 mph faster than the R27 outboard @ 3500rpm. Still a good comparison.

I would say the longevity of the Volvo or Yanmar would be equal or surpass the outboard if operated at 75% of the time at 1800 to 2000 rpm.

I have always had fast power boats and choose the Cutwater for fuel economy. I like every component of the boat but the performance. I did it backwards instead of researching and developing a conclusion. I developed a conclusion from the experience of owning the boat and then researched the consequences of my decision.I wish it had more power. If I came from sailing I probably would have come up with a different conclusion. Its all opinion.

Based on this thread and the post made most made correct choices in the boat purchased based on how they operate it.
 
'19 R27 O/B at WOT saw 41mph yesterday (2 On board, full fuel, half h2o).
Normal Cruise at 24-25mph @4200rpm, usually~12gph (2.2mpg).
Rationale: Take 6 hrs. to 'casually-cruise @<9mph (54mi) @~4gph, burning 24gals.
OR 'fast-cruise' (to get there and enjoy the destination longer) in 2.2 hrs. at 25mph and @12gph -consuming almost the same fuel (26.4gals.) in 1/3 the time. Even at 3 times the fuel burn RATE , it's about the same total fuel used enroute.
It's a matter of PREFERENCE in how you want to boat.
 
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