True R-27 weight?

[JeffRad54]

RT says my R27 dry weight is 7,000 lbs. My dealer says it is 11,000 lbs. after weighing on a truck scale and subtracting the 2000 lb. trailer weight.
Which is correct?

 

[baz]

11,000 is far too high. My 2018 R27/OB when brand new and being lifted to the water for first time was shown by the lift's scale to be around 8,300 lbs. This was with kicker motor on swim step, maybe 60 gallons of fuel in the tank. a bit of fresh water in the tank, bottom painted and all the RT's safety gear that comes with the boat.

 

[scross]

I think it depends on the configuration of the boat as well as if you are talking about the Classic or OB models.
For the 27 Classic , the factory says 6,950 pounds dry without any options or personal gear. My 2009 RT weights in at 8,000 pounds with 1/4 fuel and all other tanks empty with our options and including normal gear but not trailer weight. That’s 2,300 pounds more than the dry weight quoted by the factory.
So, making a SWAG that the 27 Classic is also 2,300 pounds over dry weight with normal gear and 1/4 fuel gets you to 9,250 pounds. Adding full fresh water (+400 lbs) full fuel (approx +480 pounds) and a full holding tank (+240 pounds) gets you to 10,370 pounds.
So what configuration was your dealer thinking of when he said 11;000 pounds? He may been a bit on the heavy side at 11,000 pounds but not that much if he was assuming all tanks full, all options on the boat and a lot of personal gear.

 

[knotflying]

My R-27 Classic with supplies, clothes, some water some fuel on trailer 11,224 pounds with trailer.

 

[j&lgray]

Mike of Knotflying brings up an interesting point: the difference between the boat's advertise weight and the reality of what we as owners actually do.

In a conversation with a Yanmar diesel mechanic, one of a few interesting points was how boat manufacturers typically determine a vessel's weight which drives how the boat's propeller is determined. He said that boat manufacturers put a 1/4 tank of fuel in an empty boat and do a sea test. Why is this important? The difference between what the manufacturer plans and what the owner actually does may mean that the prop is not the right one, which means that the engine is either working way too hard (which shortens its life) or not working hard enough causes the walls of the piston to glaze.

His point: work with a mechanic who knows about prop and engine design & performance, give them the performance data that they need, and you may be altering the prop to make the whole engine/prop/performance system be better.

 

[baz]

John: Thanks for your posting, but I have to say, I really don't understand it as a response. I say this as "Mike of Knotflying" does not discuss or state anything about "the difference between the boat's advertise weight and the reality of what we as owners actually do" in his post.

Your post does discuss the boat's weight wrt to the boat having the proper prop specs, but how does this address the OP's enquiry ?

 

[Matty]

I see a few points here.
First - the boat manufactures work with the motor or prop folks to fit the boat with the best propeller for the intended use of the boat. Individuals that want to deviate from that would need to consult with someone as suggested. Same for trim tab discussions.
Secondly - the reason why the boat manufacturer gives you a dry weight is to take out the variables of personal items , engine options, generators etc. You can easily add them to dry weight.
Extremely, if not impossible, for manufacturer to be off by 2,300 ibs. Maybe 100-200 but not 2,350. If I am reading correctly 8,000 - 6950 would be 1,050 of fuel and personal items seems reasonable and maybe even a little light.

The original post would have the dry weight off by 4,000 ibs or more than 50%. Just cannot see that happening. Not comparing apples to apples here.
If dry weight was 11,000 plus personal liquids of say 1,500 and trailer at 2,000 you are talking about pulling 14,500 rather than 10,500 as advertised. Maybe someone is trying to convince somebody they need a bigger truck??
Seems 7,000 is much closer to reality.

 

[BB marine]

I'm going to put my money on Mikes posted weight. Dry weight is boat and motor. I personally feel the boat and motor dry weight is slightly more than the posted specification. Add ground tackle, additional options, batteries,Fuel, water, additional cruising gear.... It all adds up. I say the dealer is giving good information. When I purchased my C26 the dealer told me my Tahoe with a tow capacity of 8500lbs would pull the boat. Boat was 6750lbs and trailer was 1800lbs.. No problem ! There is no way, I tried it. I have never weighted the boat and trailer but I would put money on this statement. Its over 10,000lbs the way it is equipped.

" I'll put money on it" is a figure of speech! I'm not trying to start betting on TugNuts! 😀

 

[Pilotnavigator]

Not sure why you just don’t drop by a truck stop and weigh the boat and trailer. I did this for my 21ec and got 4300 pounds for boat and trailer with. Full tank of fuel. No other gear. The scales have sections so I got a tongue weight of 400 ponds.
Cost was around 25 CND dollars and took about 5 minutes.

 

[baz]

Well, all I can say is that my brand new 2018 R27/OB (if that's the same model as indicated in the OP) was weighed by the lift that placed my boat into the water for the first time. It was registered by the lift's scale at 8,300 lbs.... and I can tell you, Mr Livingston (the older one and not the son) was very curious about what the scale indicated as he asked me for its reading. So I'm sticking to this and saying the 11,000 lbs is way off.

When my 2019 R29 CB NW Edition was lifted to the waiter for first time its weight was recorded as ~13,000 lbs while the RT's specification for dry weight is listed at 10,800 lbs. My R29 CB had a full tank of fuel (150 gallons at 7.1 lbs per gallon or some 1100 lbs, water tank at 30 gallons (some 250 lbs), holding tank empty, RT's safety gear at about say 300 lbs. Thus, this extra weight is around 1700 lbs and therefore 10,800 + 1,700 gives 12,450 lbs.

 

[Matty]

So you take mike's loaded with trailer weight and subtract 2000 for trailer and about 2000 for all the other items he mentions and you are at 7,224. Sounds like everyone is in agreement that dealer is off by 4,000 lbs...when comparing apples with apples. Dealer was using a total weight of 13,000 minus 2,000 for trailer to arrive at dry weight of 11,000.

 

[JeffRad54]

Thanks all for the good info!

My boat is the Luxury Edition, so it had the generator when weighed. Also, it has the Yamaha OB. ~ 560 lbs.
It seems to me that "Dry Weight" should include the boat with all factory equipment, less liquids and personal gear. Am I correct on this?
The fuel tank was 3/4 full, so that is about 700 lbs.
Fresh water and black water tanks were empty, and the only gear aboard was as delivered (minimal weight).

I can't have it weighed again as I do not have a trailer, which is why I'm asking the forum.
The first thing the dealer said to me when I stepped out of my 2012 V8 Toyota Tundra was "You can't tow this boat with that truck."

So, there is an extreme disparity between the dealer and RT's weights.

Thanks,
Jeff Radwill

 

[baz]

Does your travel lift or some other lift used to place your boat in the water have a scale ?

 

[JeffRad54]

Does your travel lift or some other lift used to place your boat in the water have a scale ?

Good Question. I will check.

 

[Crewdog]

Boat lift scales are just not accurate enough for logging a "certified and legal" weight.

Best option is to borrow a trailer and take it to a CAT scale at a truck stop, which are certified as accurate and legal. Then deduct trailer weight from scale ticket and you'll have boat weight.



Trailer axle is boat and trailer unhooked from truck. Subtract 1,274 lbs from 10,580 and weight of boat is 9306.
That's with 50 gal fuel, emtpy water, empty waste, safety gear, galley gear, spares, and spare anchor, chain & rode, and other myriad "stuff" as needed for cruising.

As the disclaimer goes, results may vary.



Good luck.

 

[Matty]

Great info on the scale ticket. After removing say 1,200 for the other stuff to arrive at dry weight (dealer is using dry weight) we are again close to 8,000 ibs, and far away from 11,000 lb dealer number. Only other question I would have is if crewdog has a luxury edition which would include a/c and generator Maybe another 400 to subtract and arrive at about 7,600 base dry weight. Once again, close to the published 7,000 and far from dealer 11,000.

Getting back to original statement about towing with 2012 Toyota Tundra, From what I read that truck will max out at 10,400 towing if it has the towing package and 5.7 liter engine. So from that perspective he may be right even though his dry weight is way off base. If we go with dry weight of 8,000 add trailer of 2,000 and personal items and liquids of 1,800 we are already at 11,800.
I would want excess capacity so I would be looking for a vehicle that can tow at least 13,000 lbs considering you can be sure liquids are on the low side when towing. I myself have a Dodge Ram 2500 HD with a 5.7 liter engine which tows about 13,500. I do not tow very far or often as I have my own slip and lift at the house If I did tow more I probably would trade it in for a diesel. Also, Florida being mostly flat factors in as well.

 

[BB marine]

I guess I was thinking outside the box. I was interrupting what the dealer was expressing is the R-27 will weigh around 11,000lbs as a Ranger owner would normally equip it and plan on having a Tow vehicle that is capable of towing that weight. Knotflying's weight was an example of that. While I don't know what my loaded weight is I'm sure it is in the 10,000 + range. I haven't weighed it because I have a tow vehicle with a tow capacity of 14500lbs and I'm sure it isn't close to that. Using Barry's numbers converted to a R-27
Dry weight- 7000 lbs ( Dry weight = boat standard equipment + engine) Options and equipment add to weight, ground tackle, (AGM batteries add 10 to 15 lbs per battery compared to standard maintenance free) generator if equipped....
Trailer based on dealers estimate-2000lbs
1/2 tank of fuel 75 gal X 6lbs= 450 lbs
1/2 tank of water 20 gal X 8.34 lbs=166.8
300 lbs safety equipment 300 lbs ( my safety equipment is more then this)
500 lbs (Lightly equipped for cruising)

My numbers add up to 10416.8lbs

I know my equipment numbers are higher then amounts above but I would say those numbers are good for a boat used for local cruising.

Dealer said you should figure on a tow vehicle based on the R-27 going down the road ready to use and cruise 11000lbs. I say Cudo's to the dealer giving you more realistic numbers

Boat lift scales are just not accurate enough for logging a "certified and legal" weight.

Best option is to borrow a trailer and take it to a CAT scale at a truck stop, which are certified as accurate and legal. Then deduct trailer weight from scale ticket and you'll have boat weight.



Trailer axle is boat and trailer unhooked from truck. Subtract 1,274 lbs from 10,580 and weight of boat is 9306.
That's with 50 gal fuel, emtpy water, empty waste, safety gear, galley gear, spares, and spare anchor, chain & rode, and other myriad "stuff" as needed for cruising.

As the disclaimer goes, results may vary.



Good luck.

I don't understand your explanation the axel weight is weight of the boat unhooked from the truck. That is the weight of the boat and trailer. So your R 27 and trailer weighs 10,580lbs, you subtract the 1274lbs from the axel weight because that is on the truck tongue. you don't subtract it from the boat /trailer weight. When your truck is attached to the trailer the Axel weight is now 8306 lbs and 1274 on the hitch. Your weight is close to what my estimated numbers are for the R-27 and very close to what the dealer told Jeff. His Toyota may be not large enough to pull the boat rigged. I respect that. Dealer could have said nothing and tried to sell the boat and let Jeff find out the hard way that his truck is really not the right vehicle to tow the boat.

 

[Matty]

I agree with your numbers and final tally. The way the original post was written it says the dealer indicated the dry weight was 11,000 lbs. Perhaps a communication/translation error. He would have been so far off at 11,000 that it probably was a communication error.

If he did mean fully equipped towing weight then we are all on the same page, including the dealer.

 

[scross]

Bill, my earlier SWAG of 9,250 pounds for the R27 Classic boat weight is pretty close to your measured weight of 9,306 pounds with R27 in the same configuration!
With 1/2 fuel, empty holding tanks and normal gear on board I think using a range of 9,150 to 9,450 pounds would be pretty accurate boat only weight for most R27 Classics. Add 2,000 pounds or so for most R27 trailers to give you your gross towing weight of 10,300 pounds +/- 200 pounds in that configuration. But it’s silly to tow with full holding tanks and a lot of heavy extra gear on the boat.
Of course, doing what Bill did using a commercial scale is definitely the best way to get an exact weight!

 

[Crewdog]

I don't understand your explanation the axel weight is weight of the boat unhooked from the truck. That is the weight of the boat and trailer. So your R 27 and trailer weighs 10,580lbs, you subtract the 1274lbs from the axel weight because that is on the truck tongue. you don't subtract it from the boat /trailer weight. When your truck is attached to the trailer the Axel weight is now 8306 lbs and 1274 on the hitch.

The Axle Weight indicated on the CAT scale is as I think I explained, is the weight of the boat and trailer UNHOOKED from the truck.

The steer axle and the drive axle are true weights of the truck itself, with cargo, unhooked from the boat and trailer.

The Axle weight of boat and trailer together, UNHOOKED from truck is 10,580 lbs.

The trailer weighs 1274 lbs as indicated on the trailer data plate.

Therefore,our boat, with our particular collection of equipment on this particular end of cruise weighs 9306 lbs on a scale with verified accuracy.

Here is a jpg of the same cruise weight with the trailer hitch hooked up to the truck:



This is how I calculate tongue weight with 2 different weight tickets from CAT scale:
(note these were done on different days and u can see extra 20 lbs total weight on 2nd ticket)
Truck weight unhooked - 8320 lbs
truck weight hooked - 8800 lbs

tongue weight - 480 lbs (yes, that's light; i've shifted load inside boat to increase tongue weight.)

trailer axle weight unhooked - 10,580
trailer axle weight hooked - 10,120